First Thread

[topbanana]

hi,
i'm from England (UK) and for the past few months have been reading about HHO production fuel cells,all this reading makes my tiny brain fry lol. Anyway i have 2 cars a 3.5 cc bmw and a volvo2.4 s80 bi fuel (LPG)! First could i use a fuel cell on the lpg??? if so how many plates ( dry cell) do you think is the best .the BME is 1988 model and dosen't have a cat / o2 sensor fitted , what setup would be best for this. This is a great forum and am thinking for building the dry cells myself.
Thanks for looking at this thread and appreciate any help

[Owen_]

hi,
i'm from England (UK) and for the past few months have been reading about HHO production fuel cells,all this reading makes my tiny brain fry lol. Anyway i have 2 cars a 3.5 cc bmw and a volvo2.4 s80 bi fuel (LPG)! First could i use a fuel cell on the lpg??? if so how many plates ( dry cell) do you think is the best .the BME is 1988 model and dosen't have a cat / o2 sensor fitted , what setup would be best for this. This is a great forum and am thinking for building the dry cells myself.
Thanks for looking at this thread and appreciate any help

First off, welcome to the site!

I don't think that HHO will help you out much if your running on LPG. The only way i could is by returning some power from an over sized alternator. It is my believe (quite debatable) that most gains from HHO are from better combustion of fuel droplets that the injectors (or carb) puts out.
I assume that the BMW does not use injectors, which means fine tuning a set up is less computer related and more mechanical adjustments. I know very little on this topic as i've never owned are car that didn't have injectors.

[topbanana]

the bmw has fuel injectors but in the uk o2 sensors were not fitted by law until 1992

[Humanoid_1]

would be interesting to see some results on your cars, especially the lpg one for me - am pretty curious about this.

Good luck ^^
Nice to see someone else from the UK here too

[BioFarmer93]

3500cc/3.5 liter Beamer right? no cat or O2 sensor? Sounds like you have the ideal vehicle for boosting. The current wisdom says a liter of gas per minute per liter of engine displacement. This may be taken with a grain of salt. Experimentation with YOUR particular engine and driving habits will be the determining factors. There are many cottage manufacturers out there in the cyber world offering everything from a kit of parts to finished units ready to install with all control circuitry wired and color coded for installation. OR, you can do it the long & hard way and build from scratch. Whatever route you decide to go, be diligent in your research. Lurk on lots of HHO BB's and read what people are saying about this unit or that controller or the other bubbler. If you decide to buy, then mix and match to suit your application. If you build then don't try to reinvent the wheel if you just want better mileage, find someones design that works well and duplicate it. I'm not trying to squash initiative or new ideas, but you can easily squander thousands just "tinkering". Ask me how I know... Have fun and good luck in your search.

[Humanoid_1]

will be happy to share my info with you later too...

Don't want to get too excited about it before I have finished setting it up and tested it some.

Just waiting for latest paycheck from work so I can order my o-rings + stainless 316 to build my own cells for myself and a friend - they are VERY very late paying

Already got a really nice constant current PWM with digital interface + header tank (polyethylene - make sure Not to use polycarbonate as breaks down with KOH) + KOH from ebay.

I will be installing mine on a 306 XTDi (?something like that) which already gets 50ish mpg - will be making a log from now on for before and after figures

My friends is going on a LWB Ford Transit 2.5 Diesel - already gets about 40mpg.

am all excited like a little kid again to see what they do after HHO mods

[topbanana]

The thing is !! the more i read the harder it is to get the right amount of hho without burning out your alternator. i searched for info on google and downloaded a dvd called (Hydrogen car and multi fuel dvd) in one of the sections he charts out the calculations of running hho with electrolysis( HHO Cell) under the bonnet (hood).he states the amount of btu's required ( about 4-5%) and that the amount of amps needed to power the unit what you gain you then lose by power the alternator. hope i have made myself clear but really like the idea of building a hho cell .
thanks for everybody who loked at this thread.

[BioFarmer93]

Yes, yes.. We have all heard it disproved mathematically over and over.. Funny how it still works though, isn't it? I did a quick seat of the pants calculation (Phil, don't slam me too hard-) as math is not really my strongest suite, but figure a 3.5 liter engine = about 60 cubic inches per liter, so thats about 210 cu.in.. Currently it's not unprecedented to make 1 hp per cu. in., but your Beamer is entering her matronly years so lets arbitrarily assign her a rating of .65 hp per cu. in. in good tune for roughly 135hp... It has been stated in many places that it takes between 6 and 10hp to spin your alt under load, so now we're at 125hp. It takes in the neighborhood of 25 to 30hp to maintain your lady's speed at 55mph (88kph), so... we are left with 95 to 100 extra hp that seems to be just loafing along waiting for you to come to a stop so it can finally be put to use accelerating you back up to a given speed... I realize that my premise is riddled with errors, but in light of the view by some folks that attempt to "prove" that it doesn't work via mathematics, I'll live with my D in algebra.. It will work, especially on your Beamer with no O2 sensor.

[Owen_]

does the Beamer have some sort of air sensor? It seems like a good first step for improving FE would be to install a O2 sensor, and or an exhaust temp sensor and then tweak the fuel input by adjusting the air sensors signal. The O2 sensor was a really good addition to injected ICE's though they're a complication when messing with things.

[topbanana]

hi,
my car has a mechanical air flow meter , inside this there is a outside air temp sensor , the system is made by bosch and is called motronic . it wasen't until about 1990 the bmw, fitted o2 sensors on exhaust .