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Thread: PWM linked to Throttle Position Sensor

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,418
    ummm no... i find that most hho folks throw out all kinds of theories about car engines that are just flat wrong, and it's mainly because they just don't know. they tend not to be car guys. so i'm going to go out on a limb and say you've never done any dyno tuning. it's quite easy to get the ecu to change all kinds of parameters throughout the entire rpm range. tuners do it all the time. hell in ford's new tivct motors you can change the valve train timing up to 60 degrees anywhere you choose in the rpm range with nothing more than a laptop.
    Charlie, I guess I have not met the right tuner. Everyone I have asked to do what I want says that it is not possible or illegal. Maybe you could point me in the right direction. If this is possible I know many HHO enthusiasts and manufactures who would be knocking at their door. Unless the cost is prohibitive and illegal (not passed by CARB, EPA) I will be first in line. The solutions that are available that are legal and not to expensive are very limited as far as results go.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb."

    ONE Liter per minute per 10 amps which just isn't possible Ha Ha .

  2. #12
    if you are in cali then you're screwed. well maybe not. it's going to be decidedly more difficult as our wonderful left coast friends are trying to make hot rodding a crime. you'll just have to find the right shop that knows what they are talking about.

    anywhere else in the country you can do what ever you want to the engine / drive train as long as you can pass the emissions test. and any good tuning shop will be glad to take your business. the problem is most hho folks go to a mechanic. mechanic's are not tuners! they fix things back to oem stock. that's not what we want. we want performance. so we need to take it to a performance/race shop.guys that set cars up for the drag strip. slap blowers and turbos on cars. shops that think nothing of pulling out a built 700hp ls3 and dropping in a lsx block to make a 1000 hp street driven 2010 camaro. guys like adm performance here in texas.

    however dyno tuning is not cheep. good shops charge $100 to $250 and hour for a dyno tune. however it's worth every penny if you want to see proven results. and until folks actually start doing this i think hho is still going to be considered just so much snake oil.
    hang loose,

    charlie

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,418
    if you are in cali then you're screwed. well maybe not. it's going to be decidedly more difficult as our wonderful left coast friends are trying to make hot rodding a crime. you'll just have to find the right shop that knows what they are talking about.

    anywhere else in the country you can do what ever you want to the engine / drive train as long as you can pass the emissions test. and any good tuning shop will be glad to take your business. the problem is most hho folks go to a mechanic. mechanic's are not tuners! they fix things back to oem stock. that's not what we want. we want performance. so we need to take it to a performance/race shop.guys that set cars up for the drag strip. slap blowers and turbos on cars. shops that think nothing of pulling out a built 700hp ls3 and dropping in a lsx block to make a 1000 hp street driven 2010 camaro. guys like adm performance here in texas.
    Sounds good but if you even read Mega Squirt's (posted below) or Adm Performance's own disclaimer you will see the law is national just enforced in California more. There is only one approved system that I know of but maybe more now. One thing we both agree on and that is if you live in California you are screwed!! It is a real sad affair when you make your car burn more efficiently and you take it to California and because the exhaust is too clean you fail their test and get fined for the alteration. If that don't crisp you nothing will.

    WARNING: In the U.S.A. or Canada, federal law makes it illegal for ANYONE to tamper with, disconnect, remove or otherwise render inoperative ANY automotive emissions related control device. In general, the entire fuel system and all its individual components (including the EFI ECU) are considered 'emissions related control devices'. The penalties for tampering can be substantial. A violation may make you liable for a fine of $2,500 or even more!
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb."

    ONE Liter per minute per 10 amps which just isn't possible Ha Ha .

  4. #14
    where i live so long as you have a cat and can pass emissions you're good to go. in cali if they see a modification done to your car you fail. doesn't even matter if you can pass the emissions test. atleast that's what i've been told. like i said before i don't live there so i have no clue what the actual law is. that's just what i've been told. plenty of aftermarket companies sell carb legal / 50 state approved stuff though so i'm probably wrong.
    hang loose,

    charlie

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,418
    Texas is better all the way around compared to California!! California is going to commit suicide any day now. Come to think about it they have already started using a slow method and looks like towards the end it will speed up. LOL As far a CARB 50 state stuff I was referring only to HHO reactors.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb."

    ONE Liter per minute per 10 amps which just isn't possible Ha Ha .

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2
    Hi, I am super new at this HHO thing, have just bought a system and am
    watching for the Postie.
    This thread re the control for the HHO generator by TPS is close to my
    question..
    Would there be any advantage of fitting a switch on the throttle linkage
    to turn off the HHO generator at idle? for when stuck in slow moving traffic?
    or when throttle off when decelerating?
    Would the HHO build up to problem levels in these conditions?

    Sorry if I am going over old issues
    Thank you, John

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Steinbach, MB, Canada
    Posts
    74
    Have not tried that yet, but it is on my TODO list:
    since I am controlling my PWM with a microcontroller, I want to manage frequency sensing of alternator output. At higher RPMs the frequency of the Vout should be higher than at idle 700-900 for diesel. (Did not measure frequencies yet, but this might be very healthy approach to RPM sensing).

    Another idea I am managing to utilize is sensing voltage output in two places: alternator positive terminal and right before the PFETs connection. Comparing the voltage measurements I see the real voltage drop and can figure out straight calculation of amperage drow. Another thing is that with healthy alternator you are outputting around 13.6-14.6 Volts when running at high RPMs. When the truck/car idles, there is lower voltage output there, when stalled, the voltage is bellow 13.2 V.

    Probably should not continue further...
    VOLVO VNL 670 '04, 12L D12D engine, ODO beyond 1.1M miles. Stock 6.0 MPG. Managing up to 7.3 MPG w/o HHO Cell, w/ straight flow muffler, EGRs OFF, AirTabs, ...
    SMART HHO Dry Cell in progress: 10"x12" #20 316L 66 plates unipolar 6 stack, 200 AMP PWM, Fully monitored & controlled by .NETMF Platform. 7.33LPM @ 102A

    My Youtube vIdiotics.
    FUEL ECONOMY CONVERSION TABLE & FUEL EFFICIENCY FACTORS Cheat Sheet for Truck Drivers
    CHEMICAL RESISTANCE GUIDE FOR PLASTIC AND METAL VALVES AND FITTINGS

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2

    engine control of PWM

    Forget trying to set the hydrogen output by reading the throttle position or measuring the air intake volume. The pulse width of the fuel injector is exactly proportional to engine demands. I am currently capturing it with an optocoupler connected to a microcontroller input.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2
    Mine is not EFI, just a boreing 2.8 turbo diesel

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    2
    Has anyone ever come-up with a solution for HHO throttle control?
    I know Central Valley say they have a Manifold pressure controlled PWM.

    What do you guys think.

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