Gasket width?

[IM2L844]

The testing has already been done at Akron Rubber Development Laboratory, BeaverRat.

I've just finish reading a technical paper where they tested various carbon blacks that are added to EPDM and the worst performer, by leaps and bounds, was N550. Ohms were measured at 975,000 Ohms-cm, but as compared to the other carbon black materials, it was such a poor performer that they couldn't use the standard 500 VDC for testing and had to lower it to 7.55 VDC. At that potential they were able to read a current of 0.000199 amperes. Keep in mind that this is the pure substance before it is mixed in and diluted into the other EPDM materials.

I think it's resonably safe to conclude that after it is mixed in and diluted with the other EPDM materials that an electrical current would easily prefer the path through the electrolyte (with a resistance of 1 or less ohms) as compared to the path through even the lowest quality EPDM gaskets.

[H2OPWR]

The testing has already been done at Akron Rubber Development Laboratory, BeaverRat.

I've just finish reading a technical paper where they tested various carbon blacks that are added to EPDM and the worst performer, by leaps and bounds, was N550. Ohms were measured at 975,000 Ohms-cm, but as compared to the other carbon black materials, it was such a poor performer that they couldn't use the standard 500 VDC for testing and had to lower it to 7.55 VDC. At that potential they were able to read a current of 0.000199 amperes. Keep in mind that this is the pure substance before it is mixed in and diluted into the other EPDM materials.

I think it's resonably safe to conclude that after it is mixed in and diluted with the other EPDM materials that an electrical current would easily prefer the path through the electrolyte (with a resistance of 1 or less ohms) as compared to the path through even the lowest quality EPDM gaskets.

Take a look at this video at around the 1:30 mark. This is the only time I ever used EPDM. The water was very black and only had 2 hours run time on it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSXHQ0VdxUM

There was never antyhing used other than the EPDM that could have caused it. I do not remember the ohm reading when I tested these gaskets for conductivity. I did not test them until I tore it apart but they definately were conductive. In all the testing I have ever done the water never ever turned black. This was the only time I tried EPDM. I tried it because of the chemical resistance chart. I am sure it has worked for you and others but it spooked me away from it after this test.

Larry

[Drafty-01]

Hi Larry,
How big is that set-up? It looks like about 8" x 12". Do you use a circulation pump, or just let the bubbles drag the electrolyte through the system?

Cheers,
Martin.

[IM2L844]

Larry, in both that video and the one you uploaded just a few days before it you refer to the gaskets as being Nitrile gaskets.

It's all good. We research, we test, we share what we've found, and we test each other's findings. That's the right process and exactly the way it should work if we want to correctly advance our understanding.

[H2OPWR]

Larry, in both that video and the one you uploaded just a few days before it you refer to the gaskets as being Nitrile gaskets.

It's all good. We research, we test, we share what we've found, and we test each other's findings. That's the right process and exactly the way it should work if we want to correctly advance our understanding.

If I said Nitrile in that video I mispoke. They were EPDM. I chose it beause the design required a distance for the e-lite to travel over exposed gasket material and chemical resistance was supposed to be better with EPDM. I am positive that I used EPDM there. I first started with Neoprene, Then went to Nitrile, Then for that test used EPDM. For the cell I am building now I am using Nitrile because I can not let it get very hot. Teflon is what I have been using the past few months but due to cost it is overkill unless I am running extreme heat.

Larry

[H2OPWR]

Hi Larry,
How big is that set-up? It looks like about 8" x 12". Do you use a circulation pump, or just let the bubbles drag the electrolyte through the system?

Cheers,
Martin.

Those were 6X6 nano particle coated plates. The device looks larger due to the design of the shims. The e-lite was circulating naturally. I seldom use a pump for anything.

Larry

[H2OPWR]

Larry, in both that video and the one you uploaded just a few days before it you refer to the gaskets as being Nitrile gaskets.

It's all good. We research, we test, we share what we've found, and we test each other's findings. That's the right process and exactly the way it should work if we want to correctly advance our understanding.

It is also possible that I asked for EPDM and actually got something else. I checked the rest of the piece that I still have. It is not marked at all.

Larry

[Drafty-01]

Hi Larry,
Looked a lot bigger that's for sure. What is "Nano coated" exactly? I'm guessing that it's not some kind of carbon paint finish. I've heard of Nano carbon tubes being used and developed in super capacitors, not much else though. Is it worth the extra $$$ to get this done? I guess it depends on how picky you are, and how much $$$ you want to spend on getting it just right.

Cheers,
Martin.

[IM2L844]

It is also possible that I asked for EPDM and actually got something else. I checked the rest of the piece that I still have. It is not marked at all.

Larry

In any event it's good that you brought this everyone's attention. The more people we have checking into these sorts of things, testing different materials and sharing their results and experiences, the better. I know I'll be doing some more testing because of it.

I've been watching your videos and following your progress for a long time. I have a great deal of respect and appreciation for your approach and your contributions. Keep up the great work. It helps all of us.

[H2OPWR]

Hi Larry,
Looked a lot bigger that's for sure. What is "Nano coated" exactly? I'm guessing that it's not some kind of carbon paint finish. I've heard of Nano carbon tubes being used and developed in super capacitors, not much else though. Is it worth the extra $$$ to get this done? I guess it depends on how picky you are, and how much $$$ you want to spend on getting it just right.

Cheers,
Martin.

Nano particle coating is a nickel/iron nano particle mix that is applied to the cathode and the cathode side of the bipolar neutral plates. It increases surface area 1000 times over a standard plate.

It does definately improve effeciency and production. Current density can be much higher and overall effeciency improves. The drawback is the cost. It is a very expensive process to have done. It costs about $45.00 to have just one 6X6 plate coated. If Nickel 200 is coated it is even more effecient than Stainless but even more expensive because you have to buy the Nickel.

Bottom line is that unless someone can find a real use for this technology it really does not matter. No matter how effecient you get the cell there is still a net energy loss.

Unless someone can find out how to make these devices consistantly make fuel economy improvements on any ICE than it is still just a hobby.

I do beleive in this as a viable technology and really enjoy looking for improvements but it has not been proven to consistantly improve fuel economy to my satisfaction. Some folks make very high claims and others say they have found net losses. I ran mine for over a year and did get slight improvements but not enough to pay for the device alone. I had one installed on a 1998 Jeep and recorded very nice improvements but part of that probably was me driving in a manner to improve fuel economy to try and prove this to myself.

For now I build and I test and I search for things that will help improve cell effeciency. I just keep looking at what does not work and eliminate that and try and improve upon what does work. The problem is all the variables.

Larry