Non-Corrosive Electrolyte?

[Farrahday]

I see this all the time. A major issue seems to be that the science is simply beyond many people. Either because they have not bothered to familiarise themselves with Faraday's laws of electrolysis, have not researched the subject fully or simply fail to understand what the laws imply - it basically just goes straight over their heads...

So, it never fails to amaze me how so many people interested in - and indeed actively pursuing - this science, fail miserably to grasp Faraday's laws. How can people make head-or-tail of the results from electrolyser experiments without fully understanding Faraday's laws? The mind boggles!

Here are a few bullit points for nce from the creators

almost double gas production at the same current relative to koh

See now, this is an immediate problem. This is impossible. Not just because I think so, or Michael Faraday says so, but because it really is not possible.

Any given current can only evolve a given amount of gas. Gas evolved is directly proportional to the current - this is irrelevant of the electrolyte employed. You know that the NCE plays no actual part in the final chemical reaction because you yourself state that it does not get used up, and rightly so. So the electrolyte itself cannot be evolving gas.

Anyone with a full grasp of Faraday's laws of electrolysis would see the problem immediately, but for those people who are confused, this is quite simply why it is not possible:

At the cathode, the hydrogen ion (a single proton) needs to pick up an electron to become a hydrogen atom before it can evolve as gas. Every hydrogen ion must collect an electron from the cathode to become an atom. The more current flowing through a cell, the more hydrogen ions there will be to collect electrons from the cathode. This is why the gas production is directly proportional to the current flowing.

1 hydrogen ion + 1 electron = 1 hydrogen atom

This is why it is impossible to achieve double the gas production in any given electrolyser for the same current. If people really can't see this then perhaps they should think about applying themselves to something they do understand.

What can happen, and something else that is rarely, if ever, considered is that along with the evolving oxygen and hydrogen you will get water vapour. So you will be collecting three gases, not just two. This will certainly make a difference to the volume of gas collected and measured, moreso with electrolysers that run hot.

[myoldyourgold]

Well stated Farah, and now you know why my cows can fly. LOL

[D.O.G]

This "NCE" is starting to sound like another one of the ammonium hydroxide based "electrolytes", where the ammonia is consumed as a fuel to produce extra hydrogen.

Mister plasmafuelsystem, do you have to keep adding NCE to the generator?

Pete.

[myoldyourgold]

This "NCE" is starting to sound like another one of the ammonium hydroxide based "electrolytes", where the ammonia is consumed as a fuel to produce extra hydrogen.

Mister plasmafuelsystem, do you have to keep adding NCE to the generator?

Pete, one of their claims is the electrolyte does not get used up. I am one of the most out of the box guys but this is just.............

The ammonia stuff is still under investigation. I am going to run some tests some time the beginning of next month. I am not sure it will be of much help but maybe in California where if you change anything in the car you are illegal. LOL

[plasmafuelsystem.com]

Well stated Farah, and now you know why my cows can fly. LOL

hmm, back to flying bovines now?

[plasmafuelsystem.com]

Pete, one of their claims is the electrolyte does not get used up. I am one of the most out of the box guys but this is just.............

The ammonia stuff is still under investigation. I am going to run some tests some time the beginning of next month. I am not sure it will be of much help but maybe in California where if you change anything in the car you are illegal. LOL

COLOR="Red"]nce gets used up, just slower than koh, but by all means if you like koh keep using it.[/COLOR]

[plasmafuelsystem.com]

This "NCE" is starting to sound like another one of the ammonium hydroxide based "electrolytes", where the ammonia is consumed as a fuel to produce extra hydrogen.

Mister plasmafuelsystem, do you have to keep adding NCE to the generator?

Pete.

yes mr pete you do. A 2oz bottle lasts me 5 months adding just enough to keep the flow constant and amps per side around 1.5

[plasmafuelsystem.com]

I see this all the time. A major issue seems to be that the science is simply beyond many people. Either because they have not bothered to familiarise themselves with Faraday's laws of electrolysis, have not researched the subject fully or simply fail to understand what the laws imply - it basically just goes straight over their heads...

So, it never fails to amaze me how so many people interested in - and indeed actively pursuing - this science, fail miserably to grasp Faraday's laws. How can people make head-or-tail of the results from electrolyser experiments without fully understanding Faraday's laws? The mind boggles!



See now, this is an immediate problem. This is impossible. Not just because I think so, or Michael Faraday says so, but because it really is not possible.

Any given current can only evolve a given amount of gas. Gas evolved is directly proportional to the current - this is irrelevant of the electrolyte employed. You know that the NCE plays no actual part in the final chemical reaction because you yourself state that it does not get used up, and rightly so. So the electrolyte itself cannot be evolving gas.

Anyone with a full grasp of Faraday's laws of electrolysis would see the problem immediately, but for those people who are confused, this is quite simply why it is not possible:

At the cathode, the hydrogen ion (a single proton) needs to pick up an electron to become a hydrogen atom before it can evolve as gas. Every hydrogen ion must collect an electron from the cathode to become an atom. The more current flowing through a cell, the more hydrogen ions there will be to collect electrons from the cathode. This is why the gas production is directly proportional to the current flowing.

1 hydrogen ion + 1 electron = 1 hydrogen atom

This is why it is impossible to achieve double the gas production in any given electrolyser for the same current. If people really can't see this then perhaps they should think about applying themselves to something they do understand.

What can happen, and something else that is rarely, if ever, considered is that along with the evolving oxygen and hydrogen you will get water vapour. So you will be collecting three gases, not just two. This will certainly make a difference to the volume of gas collected and measured, moreso with electrolysers that run hot.[/QUOTE]

Well, it seems the only option left for you is to buy some for $25 and test it, then you will know, if this issue is keeping you up at night...

Let me know when you figure out how to run cars on hho alone or build an hho gas engine like Yull Brown did, I'll buy one. I'm tired of buying gas.

[myoldyourgold]

nce gets used up, just slower than koh, but by all means if you like koh keep using it.

Sorry KOH or NaOH does not get used up in the electrolysis process only water gets used. If your NCE electrolyte gets used up then that is a totally different mater and is closer to ammonia. Production does not double though right??? or are my cows getting ready to take off.

[plasmafuelsystem.com]

Sorry KOH or NaOH does not get used up in the electrolysis process only water gets used. If your NCE electrolyte gets used up then that is a totally different mater and is closer to ammonia. Production does not double though right??? or are my cows getting ready to take off.

Of course it gets used up or I wouldn't have to buy more than the 1oz per 16oz of distilled water I used in 2008 to charge it. It bonds to the water just as koh, naoh, lye, baking soda etc. When I wash it off it stays on my fingers when wet it doesn't immediately dissapate. I don't know the formula they used, so I'm guessing if it's h2o2 and naoh in liquid form or naso4 as farraday proposed, but there is no smell, it's pure no precipitate and it's much easier to use than caustic - take your pick.

I haven't used nh4oh, so I would be flying your cows if I commented on that. And if that were true, then I could put seawater in my resevoir, turn on my flux capacitor and fly to my destination in my ferrari suv with gps computerized autopilot with 3 hooters girls servicing me.