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Thread: Non-Corrosive Electrolyte?

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farrahday View Post
    What exactly is your non-caustic electrolyte? And why if it is so non-caustic does it say on the bottle, 'in the event of bodily contact flush with water'?

    I'm no supporter of KOH or NaOH, but neither of them get used up in the process - chemically, that is. It is simply that many people here saturate their water with it and then heat the electrolysrer to a point where liquid droplets of water with the KOH in suspension also reach the engine. If only water vapour left the electrolyser then the electrolytic compound would not get used up. Your so-called NCE would be no different as these folk don't use a dry gas. And the main reason for a bubbler, and why it is necessary, is to prevent a back-flash and hence the electrolyser possibly exploding.

    Nobody in their right mind would use an electrolyte such as yours without knowing exactly what it was. For all anyone knows it could be saltwater!
    Does coke or dr pepper tell you what natural flavors are or quantity?

    It's silky to wash off when I get it on my fingers, but it doesn't burn the skin off like koh or naoh. I get 5 lpm, I have 265,875 miles on my 06 corolla and I've been using it since June 2008, and I get 65 mpg hwy up from 30 stock. I had a cam shaft sensor checked and the engine was clean, no sludge, saltwater wouldn't produce that result. I don't use a bubbler because there is no need since the cell is in the trunk not in the hood. It's not saltwater, there is no precipitate in the bottle. The dry gas is produced, not used. When the cap is off the resevoir, the vapor stream is 2ft high when it's not windy. Feel free to buy a bottle and test it if you want. With the hho cell I have a vaporizer on the fuel line which gave me 10 mpg hwy and the hho volo chip that gave me another 10 mpg hwy

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by plasmafuelsystem.com View Post
    Cows to fly wow? Did the epa see them and document that? The the FTC sue you and then have to spend 2 million to defend your secret method of training? Do a little research instead of playing stupid.
    http://bwt.jeffotto.com/pre-ignition...-converter.htm

    and

    http://bwt.jeffotto.com/picc-introduced.htm

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by plasmafuelsystem.com View Post
    Does coke or dr pepper tell you what natural flavors are or quantity?

    It's silky to wash off when I get it on my fingers, but it doesn't burn the skin off like koh or naoh. I get 5 lpm, I have 265,875 miles on my 06 corolla and I've been using it since June 2008, and I get 65 mpg hwy up from 30 stock. I had a cam shaft sensor checked and the engine was clean, no sludge, saltwater wouldn't produce that result. I don't use a bubbler because there is no need since the cell is in the trunk not in the hood. It's not saltwater, there is no precipitate in the bottle. The dry gas is produced, not used. When the cap is off the resevoir, the vapor stream is 2ft high when it's not windy. Feel free to buy a bottle and test it if you want. With the hho cell I have a vaporizer on the fuel line which gave me 10 mpg hwy and the hho volo chip that gave me another 10 mpg hwy
    65mpg from 30mpg stock. Wow, that's more than impressive... that's amazing... and from just 5lpm!

    From the first photo, it rather looks like your reservoir doubles as a bubbler. So how much current are you drawing through your electrolyser? Do you employ any form of current control, or over-heating cut-out?

    You say above, 'dry gas is produced, not used'? Is this a typo... What do you mean?

    However, it is clear that your gas will not be a dry gas, because as you say with the top off the reservoir you get a 2ft high mist. That mist is water condensing, so unless you remove that water with a chemical dryer somewhere before the engine, your gas is very wet.

    What do you mean when you say you have a vapoursier on the fuel line... on the regular fuel line? The regular fuel should enter the engine as a vapour anyway, that's what a carb or injectors do as the liquid does not burn. Are you heating up the fuel line to help evaporation of the liquid fuel?

    With all due respect to you, to those people that have played around with this stuff for a good while, you sound more like a sales person than a technician. And at the end of the day, irrelevant of what electrolytic compound you employ, it all comes down to the current flowing through the cell and hence obeys Faraday's laws of electrolysis. An electrolyte does not create current flow, it simply creates a path for more or less current to flow between the electrodes - your electrolyte will be no different.

    You will understand why folk will be so sceptical when most do not even see a 20% increase in fuel economy, and yet you are boasting over a 100%... and from what appears to be a tiny electrolyser!

    When using an electrolyte, I use anhydrous Na2SO4 as this is quite user friendly, but gram for gram KOH is the most efficient. So whatever you use, gram for gram it won't ionise in water as readily as KOH. Not that this really matters.
    Farrah

    It's what you learn after you think you know it all that really counts!

  4. #44
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by plasmafuelsystem.com View Post
    Cows to fly wow? Did the epa see them and document that? The the FTC sue you and then have to spend 2 million to defend your secret method of training? Do a little research instead of playing stupid.
    http://bwt.jeffotto.com/pre-ignition...-converter.htm

    and

    http://bwt.jeffotto.com/picc-introduced.htm
    Post your EPA and CARB approvals and that would keep my cows grounded.

    After a long talk to the FTC I found they had no jurisdiction over animals that fly. LOL

    Buy the way my cows are not for sale and never will be like yours are. The problem with getting EPA approval had to do with the inability of disposing of the Bovine Fecal Mater in a acceptable way but they too had no jurisdiction over flying animals, so no law suit. Maybe you have solved this problem.

    One more thing I never said the technology doesn't work.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb."

    ONE Liter per minute per 10 amps which just isn't possible Ha Ha .

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farrahday View Post
    65mpg from 30mpg stock. Wow, that's more than impressive... that's amazing... and from just 5lpm!



    From the first photo, it rather looks like your reservoir doubles as a bubbler. So how much current are you drawing through your electrolyser? Do you employ any form of current control, or over-heating cut-out?

    You say above, 'dry gas is produced, not used'? Is this a typo... What do you mean?



    Yes, the water falls and the gas is sucked into the air box. Less than 2 amps or 120 miliamps dca, so not much. No current controls, I get 13,11,8,5,2 volts from outside to inside the stepdown is due to the spacers. No problem with heat because the design allows heat to escape. Their (r/d at better world technologies or bwt) first design was a closed box with a see tube using koh and they had many heat, foam and amp issues. Varying amp levels for engine size and all that. The cell/resevoir gets warm but not too hot to touch. I mean produced because the gas is what is coming out of the resevoir like a thin flame which is then used by the engine of course.


    However, it is clear that your gas will not be a dry gas, because as you say with the top off the reservoir you get a 2ft high mist. That mist is water condensing, so unless you remove that water with a chemical dryer somewhere before the engine, your gas is very wet.



    It looks very dry and I suppose the air filter could act as a filter but it's above the input hole, so it probably doesn't since the vacuum is very strong. It's not a misty feel, however when I grab the tailpipe I do get water drops. I was thinking about putting the input under the throttle body, however probably wouldn't make much difference.


    What do you mean when you say you have a vapoursier on the fuel line... on the regular fuel line? The regular fuel should enter the engine as a vapour anyway, that's what a carb or injectors do as the liquid does not burn. Are you heating up the fuel line to help evaporation of the liquid fuel?



    The magnetic vaporizer is wrapped on the heater hose and the fuel line is attached to both ends. The new catalyst crackers are filled with 7 catalysts and inserted in the heater hose with the fuel lines secured on top. They both essentially break the gas molecule into smaller parts like a log into wood chips for a more complete burn. This is like a mini refinery to treat the fuel prior to ignition. You can see a better explaination on my site and pictures of the various types for different hp ratings. Now they suggest the vaporizer for carburetors and the cat cracker for injection.


    With all due respect to you, to those people that have played around with this stuff for a good while, you sound more like a sales person than a technician. And at the end of the day, irrelevant of what electrolytic compound you employ, it all comes down to the current flowing through the cell and hence obeys Faraday's laws of electrolysis. An electrolyte does not create current flow, it simply creates a path for more or less current to flow between the electrodes - your electrolyte will be no different.



    Yes, I am sales I had my mechanic install the vaporizer, do the electrical and run the vacuum tube to the air box. I installed the cell, mounted it to the plexiglass. I like it better in the trunk because it's cleaner and since there was no room, it was the only option. I'm going from what the r/d boys tell me about the NCE acting as a catalyst. I'm not sure if it's h2o2, or naoh in some sort of liquid form. It looks/feels thicker than water but smooth, nothing suspended or floating around, it's pure. It dries around the cap crusty/salty, has to be a salt base. It has no smell but it's much better than my first mix of baking soda and h2o2. I cleaned all that crap out with apple cider vinegar and then flushed it.


    You will understand why folk will be so sceptical when most do not even see a 20% increase in fuel economy, and yet you are boasting over a 100%... and from what appears to be a tiny electrolyser!



    Yes, it's natural to be skeptical and I expect to prove what I say with repeatable results not just words that is why there is a 30 day guarantee on all products and 60 for the catalyst crackers. My progression was 30 stock, added the vaporizer for another 10 mpg hwy, added the hho cell for 15 mpg hwy so it was 50 to 55 hwy until I found the volo chip 5/19/2011 which gave me another 10 to 20% which was around 10 mpg hwy. However, all this still means I'm spending $10 to $15 a day in gas as I travel 100 to 200 miles.


    The test I use for hwy is this, fill up to where the pump clicks off then drive 25 miles at least and turn around. Return to the same pump and fill unitl it clicks. Last test used .9 gals and went 60 miles = 66 mpg approx. This is the ideal mpg. Combined city/hwy is 40 mpg.


    Step #2 is the PICC (pre ignition cat converter) will turn liquid fuel into plasma vapor and will make the 100 mpg mark city/hwy.



    http://bwt.jeffotto.com/pre-ignition...-converter.htm



    and



    http://bwt.jeffotto.com/picc-introduced.htm



    This was supposed to be released in 2009 but the FTC sued bwt to prove the 50% increase guarantee which they did, but it cost a few million.



    I have a trucker in california waiting for the EO# for carb who has 40 trucks he would like to retrofit. Whenever california figures out their budget mess.



    I'd rather just use hho if I could figure out what these guys did...



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Py8QY...43C6F56550FB4B



    Very interesting 15 minutes. Probably spent more than $1500, another alternator, battery, electronics, guages etc etc!

    When using an electrolyte, I use anhydrous Na2SO4 as this is quite user friendly, but gram for gram KOH is the most efficient. So whatever you use, gram for gram it won't ionise in water as readily as KOH. Not that this really matters.


    You are probably right, however I like the results from the NCE and not worrying about having to measure amps, and exact amount of koh per water etc. All I do is add enough to keep the flow constant and if I add a bit too much I have no problems with heat and amps stay about 2 or less.

  6. #46
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    QUOTE=myoldyourgold;44899]Post your EPA and CARB approvals and that would keep my cows grounded.



    see link http://bwt.jeffotto.com/picc-introduced.htm



    and read http://bwt.jeffotto.com/alternative.htm



    still waiting on carb eo# from californikation ... maybe when the guv can cut a few billion and start asking beaners for their i9 and everify forms, and a legit social security number instead of 000 00 0000. But that is asking too much in a state where you don't need id to vote.



    the EPA want to tell us that co2 is now toxic but we exhale and what plants use it for food. Screw them. I was kidding about them documenting your flying moo moos. I hate big guberment.


    After a long talk to the FTC I found they had no jurisdiction over animals that fly. LOL



    I want wings but I'll have to wait for www.moller.com his flying cars. Just as soon as the FAA sets up the gps to land planes with veritical take off!


    Buy the way my cows are not for sale and never will be like yours are. The problem with getting EPA approval had to do with the inability of disposing of the Bovine Fecal Mater in a acceptable way but they too had no jurisdiction over flying animals, so no law suit. Maybe you have solved this problem.



    I think cows would be afraid to fly unless there were flying dogs that rounded them up and told them where to land. Imagine the mess of a lightning strike.


    One more thing I never said the technology doesn't work.[/QUOTE]



    No worries, everyone is a skeptic... my dad asked me "so now you spent all this money, does this hho mumbo jumbo even work"? The rest of my family was sure it would blow up the car. I guess it's similar to what edison said about a/c and that tesla was crazy...

  7. #47
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    Well thanks for elaborating Plasmaguy. All very interesting.

    From what you have said, I would think that the NCE is sodium sulphate concentrate, hence Na2SO4 already mixed with water. It dissolves completely, nothing is in suspension and it does have that feel to it - that said, this is also the case for most other electrolytes.

    If you are only drawing up to 2 amps, then it won't require much of any electrolyte to achieve that current draw. In fact 2 amps is only a tiny current draw and the reason why your unit can dissipate the heat easily enough. But, 2 amps doesn't produce much hydroxy at all, let alone the 120mA you mention, which is a ridiculously tiny current, so I find this to be a bit of a mystery in itself. I was expecting you to say you were drawing in the region of 20 -40 Amps!

    I'd always heard that those magnets on fuel lines were very over-rated, yet it sounds like that has made a real impact on you fuel economy.

    Whatever, it sounds like you are seeing some real world returns for the modifications.

    The PICC sounds like it will be fun... the only thing you will be lacking then is a flux capacitor!
    Farrah

    It's what you learn after you think you know it all that really counts!

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farrahday View Post
    Well thanks for elaborating Plasmaguy. All very interesting.

    From what you have said, I would think that the NCE is sodium sulphate concentrate, hence Na2SO4 already mixed with water. It dissolves completely, nothing is in suspension and it does have that feel to it - that said, this is also the case for most other electrolytes.

    yes that could be

    If you are only drawing up to 2 amps, then it won't require much of any electrolyte to achieve that current draw. In fact 2 amps is only a tiny current draw and the reason why your unit can dissipate the heat easily enough. But, 2 amps doesn't produce much hydroxy at all, let alone the 120mA you mention, which is a ridiculously tiny current, so I find this to be a bit of a mystery in itself. I was expecting you to say you were drawing in the region of 20 -40 Amps!

    Here are a few bullit points for nce from the creators

    almost double gas production at the same current relative to koh

    non corrosive

    no need to flush the cell again

    eliminates o ring deterioration

    eliminates foaming problems

    steady gas production

    benchmark for testing on gas production should be about 1.7 amps x the number of liters in engine size.

    so for me 1.7 x 1.8 should be 3.06

    I guess I need to add more and see what happens!

    2 liter engine or less should be less than 4 amps

    3 liter = 6 amps

    4 liter = 8 amps

    5 liter = 10 amps

    6 liter = not exceed 12 amps

    I only measured one side if I double that then 240 mamps is still less, so ??


    I'd always heard that those magnets on fuel lines were very over-rated, yet it sounds like that has made a real impact on you fuel economy.

    That is why I installed it first to measure. I was skeptical as well. It works much better than the "tornado" deal you stick in the air intake. I am going to upgrade to the catalyst cracker asap.

    Whatever, it sounds like you are seeing some real world returns for the modifications.

    The PICC sounds like it will be fun... the only thing you will be lacking then is a flux capacitor!
    Carefull, remember the trouble they got in with that machine!

  9. #49
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    So why not let someone in a different state try the PICC?

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by enuro12 View Post
    So why not let someone in a different state try the PICC?
    The state issue regarding california is only for carb/eo# and their budget problems. The reason the picc isn't in production is due to the FTC lawsuit in 2009 that drained the r/d funds. They are selling the components of the mmpg system individually to make the income needed to proceed.

    read more here >>> http://update.jeffotto.com/

    "What is the current status of ITEC's Electricity Program"? The program is on hold and will remain so until one of two possibilities happen. 1) We somehow achieve mass awareness and the people demand it in sufficient numbers. OR 2) The Republic movement is successful in restoring lawful government under common law as outlined in the organic constitution. This is also the case for our Pre Ignition Catalytic Converter and many other breakthrough technologies waiting in the wings you may not have even heard about.

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