New Guy Brainstorming about HHO

[TurtleTom]

Okay, I've been researching as much as possible on HHO production, actually from my Analytical Chemistry days in college it is H2 + O. I'm thinking about doing a lot of experimenting with a wet cell I'm going to try and build myself. Could someone tell me what thickness I should get for the plates? How long/wide should they be? I'm going to house it in a clear acryllic box. I'm leaning toward using titanium instead of stainless steel. I am going to try to get the cell working without electrolyte and using spring water instead of distilled or tap water if at all possible. I live near the mountains, we have plenty. I know that I will be doing a lot of modifying along the way until I arive at a suitable working cell and may have to add electrolyte later. At the moment I am just getting together all the materials needed to build a fuel cell. I recently bought a PWM and hope to start building soon.

If I can get it to work well, I will be getting an adjustable EFIE or two. I've seen some of these on the net that have an LED readout. Do they really work? I have a friend that works at an auto repair shop that will alow me to connect my car to his auto computer system to get baseline readings and to do adjustments. I'm pretty sure this is what Hydrorunner is doing with their system G3.

If anyone has any other ideas I'm all ears. Well, back to research and brainstorming. Thanks.

[lhazleton]

Tom,
FYI, wet-cell designs are extremely inefficient and don't produce enough oxyhydrogen to do much at all. The amount of amperage drawn is way more than the energy released.
Building a wet-cell reactor in a clear acrylic box is difficult. Since Hydrogen is the lightest gas, everything must be perfectly sealed. The slightest leak anywhere in the system will render it useless. These are also prone to explosions due to the wiring being located within the reactor itself.
There are lots of videos on YouTube showing wet-cells disintegrating.

[Owen_]

Okay, I've been researching as much as possible on HHO production, actually from my Analytical Chemistry days in college it is H2 + O. I'm thinking about doing a lot of experimenting with a wet cell I'm going to try and build myself. Could someone tell me what thickness I should get for the plates? How long/wide should they be? I'm going to house it in a clear acryllic box. I'm leaning toward using titanium instead of stainless steel. I am going to try to get the cell working without electrolyte and using spring water instead of distilled or tap water if at all possible. I live near the mountains, we have plenty. I know that I will be doing a lot of modifying along the way until I arive at a suitable working cell and may have to add electrolyte later. At the moment I am just getting together all the materials needed to build a fuel cell. I recently bought a PWM and hope to start building soon.

If I can get it to work well, I will be getting an adjustable EFIE or two. I've seen some of these on the net that have an LED readout. Do they really work? I have a friend that works at an auto repair shop that will alow me to connect my car to his auto computer system to get baseline readings and to do adjustments. I'm pretty sure this is what Hydrorunner is doing with their system G3.

If anyone has any other ideas I'm all ears. Well, back to research and brainstorming. Thanks.

Welcome!
A few things to start with. As lhazleton said, wet cells are pretty bad next to even a poorly made dry cell. Wet cells can be a good experment to play with, they are easy to make, and tweak.
If you are looking to install it on a ICE (internal combustion engine), you should be aiming to make a highly efficient cell. something to think about:
Alternators are about 85% efficient
so if you are using 20Amps that's 20*14V=280 watts
at 85% efficiency, you will be taking about 325watts of power from your engine.
If you have a 90% efficient cell (really good dry cell), you'll be making 252 watts of gas from that 325watts at a loss about 75watts

If you have a 50% efficient cell (mid range wet cell), you'll be making 140watts of hho with a loss of 185watts

With HHO on cars, you lose energy no matter what, the gains are from altered mapping, and better combustion.

As far as water, and efficiency, it's a mater of voltage. 1.23V is the theoretical min. to make gas. Anything will be making heat are reducing efficiency. Due to resistance of the plates 2V is a better aim for function. Water that has very little in it, like spring water, with maybe 200ppm of salts would have a conductivity of 0.4 ms/cm, it just wouldn't be feasible, it would have to be the size of a house, or run at 1200V.

I would highly recommend you not go with Ti, it's expensive and hard to work with. If you want to spend a lot on plates at lest go with Ni, it has lots of advantages.

[TurtleTom]

Thanks guys for the reply. I guess the wet cell idea is dead. I'll research the dry cell config for a while. I may buy one to get an idea of how they are built. Do you have any suggestions? As you can see I'm new to this. Thanks.

[lhazleton]

All I can tell you is to do lots of research. Most of us build our own.
You can find a ton of videos on how they're assembled.

[Owen_]

All I can tell you is to do lots of research. Most of us build our own.
You can find a ton of videos on how they're assembled.

I second that.

Also I would suggest playing around with a DC power-supply, and try some crude (and cheap) wet cells. Test production, calculate MMW, and see what adjustments improve it. You can learn a lot from reading, but some hands on experience is a great thing.

You may want to start with a dry cell, but play with it at home first. I really think it's good to "get your hands wet" (hopefully not with 28% KOH) before trying to slap it into an engine.

[TurtleTom]

Okay, I found a diagram of how the dry cell is configured. I have seen some that have a return to the resevoir on the other side of the cell. I'm waiting on material to arrive that I ordered to begin the build and expiriment.
The reason I thought of titanium other than stainless steel was that chromium compounds leach into solution during the electrolysis process which are harmful to the environment and to humans. I'll also look at ni.
You don't have to worry about me using 28% KOH, I'll begin with 10% and try to optimize HHO output with that concentration. I have access to reagent grade water which is more pure than distilled because I work at a hospital lab. I hope it works.
Thanks for the information. I really appreciate it. Anyone watch the BP CEO get grilled by congesional hearing? I read they were after his hide.

Thanks.

[astrocady]

Hi TurtleTom :-)

In my opinion, the whole chromium issue with stainless steal plates in a dry cell is being way overblown. Having said that, I am testing some Nickel cells because I have some potential clients who are adament about no chrome.

Last thought -- it seems to me like 10% KOH stings my skin as bad as 28%