Why HHO Cannot Work

[Roland Jacques]

Hi Brad,

1. HHO boosting, done right, minimizes wasted energy. (mainly heat) That's all. It does not make extra energy, It simply just Minimizes wasted energy.

2. Yes, it uses energy to minimize wasted energy and that may be difficult to understand.
There are other components of the modern ICE that do the same thing. Yes they also use extra energy to minimize wasted energy.
(A.) Compared to the old carburetor ICE, the Electronic Fuel Injectors use energy to minimize wasted energy.
(B) Compared to inferior older Ignition systems, high energy ignition systems use more energy to minimize wasted energy.

If you really want to understand how HHO boosting can work. You first need to understand all the types of energy transfers that take place in a ICE. When you understand all the different types of energy transferring going on, you can easily see where minimizing some of that waste can take place. Yes, it can be done by altering the fuel at the expense of some energy.

Id ask you to think of 5 types of energy transfers and put them in order of which ones you think waste the most energy in the ICE. Then we can go from there. If you want to.

[astrocady]

I like this. You have provided something that is logical and can be tested. If this is true than I would have to admit to being wrong. I dont know of a way personally to verify this but I dont see any reason to think it could not be true.

Go to http://h2tek.com/dyno-test.html and check out what happens to the exhaust emissions when HHO is introduced. The only explanation for these reductions is that the fuel (in this case diesel) is being burned more completely, thus reducing the emissions. Also note that these readings were taken by a California State certified emissions testing firm. When the State wants to check to see if a company's engines meed their standards (and if they can therefore issue them an expensive ticket) they send this firm into the field to conduct the test.

[IM2L844]

Brad,

A few years ago I was just as skeptical as you are. I remained skeptical until I built my own electrochemical reactor, installed in on my own vehicle and performed hundreds of miles worth of testing with positive results. Back then, there was far less information available than you have access to today.

I suspect that the reason nobody offered the simple explanation that Astrocady gave is because it is so widely disseminated and accepted as common knowledge within the HHO research community and you gave the impression that you had already spent some time investigating and searching for a logical explanation, so everyone assumed, as I did, that you had already come across that argument and dismissed it out of hand.

I would like to add one thing to Astro's explanation because, if you continue your research, you will eventually come across the counter argument against it which is that it requires at least a 4% concentration by volume of pure hydrogen in air at standard T&P before it will ignite and when you do the math the average system doesn't put out nearly enough HHO to provide that ratio in an ICE at cruising speeds (RPM's).

What the naysayers continually overlook is the fact that we are not talking about pure hydrogen in air at standard T&P. We are talking about HHO (a much more volatile gas) in an already combustible mixture of gasoline vapors and air compressed to more than 150 psi and raised to a pre-ignition temperature of nearly 200 degrees F. I'm not aware of any definitive testing that has been done in this area, but I suspect that the minimum concentration of HHO required for ignition by volume in this environment is far less than 1% which means that very little HHO can produce the effect Astrocady described.

[myoldyourgold]

Brad I again have to apologize. It was my mistake to have read to much between the lines. I took it, by the statements you made that the only way you could have acquired this knowledge was by research. I assumed you were not born with it(maybe I was wrong) and must have done some extensive research. It was not directly stated by you, but this kind of information had to come from some where. The only way I got the same information you posted is by researching the subject. Now I hope the information already posted answers your question. If not narrow it down to what part you have a problem with and we will help out if possible.

[braddubya]

All of this new information I find very interesting.

I did not research *extensively* was what I was getting at. I looked into what it was and what the claims were and then saw the logical flaw with MOST peoples claims and descriptions of how it worked.

I originally discovered HHO when a guy was telling me about how he was going to build a vehicle that ran only on HHO that it was producing. I knew this was not possible.


I am still skeptical but this other theory is plausible.

I still dont understand why if it works no auto manufacturer in the world has picked up on it as its sounds that it could be incorporated into a vehicle line with very little effort.

[myoldyourgold]

Brad it is like Shane says soon. This is very close to going main stream. There are a number of agreements already in place. Sit back and watch.

[Philldpapill]

Braddubya,
I'm an electrical engineer, and I was VERY skeptical at first - for the same reasons as you. However, in designing a bunch of electrical stuff, I've often come across things that SHOULD by all accounts work, but they don't. I've also come across things that should NEVER work, yet they do. In both of these types, there's always some little "oh yeah.... duh..." bug that wasn't ever considered. HHO, I think, is in the latter group.

My laptop battery is about to die, so I'm gonna make this short. The theory is that HHO allows the EXISTING energy to be converted to MECHANICAL energy more EFFICIENTLY. The mechanism of action isn't very well understood, but you will see very little, if any, talk about over unity or X joules in = X + Y joules out... We're, for the most part, pretty level headed people over here searching for WHY HHO works... And battery death in 3...2....1..........

[astrocady]

I still dont understand why if it works no auto manufacturer in the world has picked up on it as its sounds that it could be incorporated into a vehicle line with very little effort.

The reason is that 99% of new car buyers want their car to be tinker free. Hardly anyone even checks their oil anymore. Many automatic transmissions don't even dipsticks. HHO systems require tinkering. You need to add water, make sure the electrolyte concentration remains within limits, change the bubbler water, etc, etc. For some, the gains are worth the hassle -- but for most it just wouldn't fly.

[IM2L844]

I agree with astro. A cost effective, tinker free system for the average layperson would be nearly impossible to design...with "cost effective" being the operative term. I know a tinker free system could be built, but I don't believe the fuel savings would be able to offset the cost of such a system over the life of the vehicle. Even if it could, it would still require, at the least, intermittent servicing by a qualified professional.

The averge person won't even get their oil changed every time they are supposed to, but neglecting service to this system could be catastrophically dangerous and a huge legal liability to the manufacturers.

[cabrera]

It's impossible.
HHO doesn't work.
The increase in my trucks mileage is a "MIRACLE"

The miracle of our Lord & Savior ...Stan Meyers!
The father of hydroxy
To fight the evil Satan of petroleum....
"CAN I GET AN AMEN!"
"I SAID, CAN I GET AN AMEN BROTHERS!"

It's a matter of FAITH... & LOVE of the GAS (gotta love the gas)
You gotta believe, & the TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE!!!


Hallelujah & PRAISE the LORD!!