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Thread: What is the optimum active area of electrodes?

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    Steinbach, MB, Canada
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    74
    Quote Originally Posted by myoldyourgold View Post
    That is one sweet setup. Thank you for the great pictures. I tend to do better with pictures.
    Thank you! I am taking pics with my DroidX and it sucks a big time. When I have all my ideas implemented will record a video and post it on YouTube.

    LOL I am impressed to see that you have springs on the the build. I went to that to prevent loosing too. I have found that adding a stiffener around the edge where the bolts also makes a much tighter build and aids in the loosing problem. I have seen some great stiffeners made out of stainless but mine are just mild steal and powder coated.
    Yes, after I figured out the right tension compression springs and installed them - no leaks at all.

    Another thing about gasket material I use, it is not neoprene, but EPDM 1/16" 55-65 durometer, 3/4" cut width on the edges. The EPDM is the best for KOH!
    I but it very cheap 3" x 25" roll for $90 shipped from Rubber Cal. Great guys!

    In my experience I have gotten much better numbers by not using a pump and separating the units into smaller units. With such a large number of plates cooling needs more flow and that is why you need a pump. The down side of that is that this creates a steady flow of electrolyte out the output ports and increases current leakage. When the flow is broken up with gas which has a high resistance and less liquid it tends to slow this down and current goes where it should because it is easier.
    I do completely get your point and expect it for sure.
    My plan is to cheat the system! I will install bypass ball valve and along with circulative cooling of the electrolyte will be able to set up needed flow of the fluid through the cell. It is big, needs cooling and it lacks a lot of fluid when working hard. With the pump installed I want to boost my production for about 30-40%. I see that as real possibility. Will update on the success and will post pictures of the setup.

    The balance is critical and so port size and location come into play in a big way. If you are not insulating your ports with Weldon 16, you need to study up on that. You will see measurable differences.
    My ports all use 3/8" Bard to 3/8" NPT fittings on the cell.
    I have three output ports, two input ports. Output ports go into transition to 5/8" PEX. So I have a free flow of gas there.

    I plan to replace all yellow metal fittings with 316L ones in order to eliminate any source of corrosion inside the system. That will be another $100-150 to add up to the cost.

    I will check on your Weldon 16 for sure.

    Are your plates media blasted? If not this will also give you another boost.
    Duel connections are good.
    Yes and no. I have 44 plates blasted, others polished. Want to see how they look after conditioning.

    As to the connections, I am planning to apply a lot of electrical conductive to the terminals and on top of them put shrink tubing.

    One more question, how long have you run the reactor and what kind of results are you getting? Keep it up. Great job.
    I have ran it for about 3 weeks, outputting around 4 LPM. Engine works way more smoother but no visible results on fuel economy yet.

    Amp draw loads the alternator a bit and I assume that the generated gas recoups the waisted HP to run extra amps.

    With my 12L engine I am shooting to produce at least 12LPM and then I will watch the results.

    Another thing that troubles me is my POWER MOSFET. With 100% duty @ 70AMP it is OK, but when I lower it down it starts heating like crazy. My idea is to make dual N-channel bridge where electronically I will swap the mosfets with lower duty in order to lower the heat build up on a single mosfet.

    Another idea is to run single mosfet at 100% duty, but when I need to lover the duty, I will be able to reverse polarity on the cell with two mosfets . Do you get my idea? It will look like this:

    100% Duty - 100% duty on 1st mosfet (+- to the cell),
    80% Duty - 40% duty on 1st mosfet (+- to the cell), other 40% duty on 2nd mosfet (-+ to the cell)
    and so on.

    Also, I will be able to switch mosfets lets say every hour changing polarity of the electrodes and prolong my cell life. Will do the tests and see what is worth of.

    Attached is my design of gaskets with the plates. Will redesign them a bit for my next cell in the future.
    VOLVO VNL 670 '04, 12L D12D engine, ODO beyond 1.1M miles. Stock 6.0 MPG. Managing up to 7.3 MPG w/o HHO Cell, w/ straight flow muffler, EGRs OFF, AirTabs, ...
    SMART HHO Dry Cell in progress: 10"x12" #20 316L 66 plates unipolar 6 stack, 200 AMP PWM, Fully monitored & controlled by .NETMF Platform. 7.33LPM @ 102A

    My Youtube vIdiotics.
    FUEL ECONOMY CONVERSION TABLE & FUEL EFFICIENCY FACTORS Cheat Sheet for Truck Drivers
    CHEMICAL RESISTANCE GUIDE FOR PLASTIC AND METAL VALVES AND FITTINGS

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Stanfordville, NY
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    799
    Quote Originally Posted by myoldyourgold View Post
    Lee here is something to think about in regards to Voltage and amps. If you control your amperage with electrolyte concentration and have a constant 13.8 volts but now you very the active surface area of the plate.... What happens to the voltage and amperage and why?
    Carter,
    Why are you trying to get me to think this late in the day?
    You know dam# well that this old grey-matter thingy shuts down before noon

    Borescopeit,
    Beautiful build! You can tell that you really took your time with the build. Very impressive indeed!
    1998 Explorer 4x4, 4.0
    14 cell / 2 stack 6x9" drycell reactor 28%KOH dual EFIE, MAF enhancer, IAT & ECT controllers, 2.4 LPM @ 30 amps. 6.35 MMW http://reduceyourfuelbill.com.au/forum/index.php

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    1,418
    Carter,
    Why are you trying to get me to think this late in the day?
    You know dam# well that this old grey-matter thingy shuts down before noon
    My grey-matter thingy never got turned on!!
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb."

    ONE Liter per minute per 10 amps which just isn't possible Ha Ha .

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Steinbach, MB, Canada
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    74
    Carter,
    the "Weld On 16" you recommend is for permanent sealing of ports? I was trying a few other things but the did not hold completely.

    Does this stuff stick acrylic/polypropylene to metals as dead to the ground? Can I use it on the threads as well as barb connections?
    VOLVO VNL 670 '04, 12L D12D engine, ODO beyond 1.1M miles. Stock 6.0 MPG. Managing up to 7.3 MPG w/o HHO Cell, w/ straight flow muffler, EGRs OFF, AirTabs, ...
    SMART HHO Dry Cell in progress: 10"x12" #20 316L 66 plates unipolar 6 stack, 200 AMP PWM, Fully monitored & controlled by .NETMF Platform. 7.33LPM @ 102A

    My Youtube vIdiotics.
    FUEL ECONOMY CONVERSION TABLE & FUEL EFFICIENCY FACTORS Cheat Sheet for Truck Drivers
    CHEMICAL RESISTANCE GUIDE FOR PLASTIC AND METAL VALVES AND FITTINGS

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,418
    the "Weld On 16" you recommend is for permanent sealing of ports? I was trying a few other things but the did not hold completely.

    Does this stuff stick acrylic/polypropylene to metals as dead to the ground? Can I use it on the threads as well as barb connections?
    Weldon 16 will stick to media blasted stainless. It will not stick to smooth stainless or even sanded stainless. It is made to glue acrylic together. Acrylic to acrylic not metal. Larry found out that it sticks on metal when media blasted and it is not affected by the heat or electrolyte. I had been using a dental acrylic which is 100 times more expensive which also worked for a couple years or so. You insulate the ports around the edges and on to the plate for at least 1/4 of an inch around the port. Both sides should meet and glue together forming a grommet that is not removable. I fill up most of the port and then remove it with a dremel tool after it is dried. My ports are made slightly bigger than required just for this purpose so I leave an acrylic edge all around the port. It does not work on threads. Hope that helps.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb."

    ONE Liter per minute per 10 amps which just isn't possible Ha Ha .

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Steinbach, MB, Canada
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    74
    Quote Originally Posted by myoldyourgold View Post
    Weldon 16 will stick to media blasted stainless. It will not stick to smooth stainless or even sanded stainless. It is made to glue acrylic together. Acrylic to acrylic not metal. Larry found out that it sticks on metal when media blasted and it is not affected by the heat or electrolyte. I had been using a dental acrylic which is 100 times more expensive which also worked for a couple years or so. You insulate the ports around the edges and on to the plate for at least 1/4 of an inch around the port. Both sides should meet and glue together forming a grommet that is not removable. I fill up most of the port and then remove it with a dremel tool after it is dried. My ports are made slightly bigger than required just for this purpose so I leave an acrylic edge all around the port. It does not work on threads. Hope that helps.
    I still cannot get it.
    Do you insulate holes on the plates to stop current leak, or you work with the fittings? Do you have any pictures to show? And what is the reason for doing that?

    P.S. After rereading your post I got your idea. So the thickness of the layer is close to zero. Right? Since you want your plates to have enough space between to let the electrolyte flow?

    After I disassembled my cell a weak ago to see how my design worked out, on about 40% of the plates I saw big current leak (bottom port for e-lyte supply). My wide gas output ports are perfect there.

    Have you looked into the PDF I attached?
    VOLVO VNL 670 '04, 12L D12D engine, ODO beyond 1.1M miles. Stock 6.0 MPG. Managing up to 7.3 MPG w/o HHO Cell, w/ straight flow muffler, EGRs OFF, AirTabs, ...
    SMART HHO Dry Cell in progress: 10"x12" #20 316L 66 plates unipolar 6 stack, 200 AMP PWM, Fully monitored & controlled by .NETMF Platform. 7.33LPM @ 102A

    My Youtube vIdiotics.
    FUEL ECONOMY CONVERSION TABLE & FUEL EFFICIENCY FACTORS Cheat Sheet for Truck Drivers
    CHEMICAL RESISTANCE GUIDE FOR PLASTIC AND METAL VALVES AND FITTINGS

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,418
    Yes I did look at your plate design. You will have leakage on the bottom and limited amount showing but still there on the top port. Insulating both will bring your efficiency up.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb."

    ONE Liter per minute per 10 amps which just isn't possible Ha Ha .

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Steinbach, MB, Canada
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    74
    Quote Originally Posted by myoldyourgold View Post
    Yes I did look at your plate design. You will have leakage on the bottom and limited amount showing but still there on the top port. Insulating both will bring your efficiency up.
    Thank you for healthy advice!

    Do you insulate each plate or go one after every second plate?
    VOLVO VNL 670 '04, 12L D12D engine, ODO beyond 1.1M miles. Stock 6.0 MPG. Managing up to 7.3 MPG w/o HHO Cell, w/ straight flow muffler, EGRs OFF, AirTabs, ...
    SMART HHO Dry Cell in progress: 10"x12" #20 316L 66 plates unipolar 6 stack, 200 AMP PWM, Fully monitored & controlled by .NETMF Platform. 7.33LPM @ 102A

    My Youtube vIdiotics.
    FUEL ECONOMY CONVERSION TABLE & FUEL EFFICIENCY FACTORS Cheat Sheet for Truck Drivers
    CHEMICAL RESISTANCE GUIDE FOR PLASTIC AND METAL VALVES AND FITTINGS

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,418
    Each plates ports are insulated.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb."

    ONE Liter per minute per 10 amps which just isn't possible Ha Ha .

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