Negitive Results Chevy 2006 Silverado

[forumsKDC]

Hello,

I have been working this HHO thing for a long time (7,000 or so miles) and have not had any positive results. I put about 35k miles per year so it does not take long to do my testing.

I have a 2006 Chevy Silverado 5.3L gas with 125,000 miles.
Purchased a single cell generator from HydroClubUSA.
I added a second reservoir between the bubbler and the intake to capture any liquids before they go into the intake.
Purchased my KOH electrolyte from www.essentialdepot.com.
At 1.5 oz of KOH is about 12 amps and produces about 1 liter of gas in 80 seconds. So I know the HHO generator is producing something.
Since I use this truck for work, I have logged every tank of gas, with average speed and miles per gallon. Before I purchased my HHO stuff, the life time average of the truck is 16.23 miles per gallon. Average gas mileage for highway speeds is a around 18.1 MPG. Do a lot of highway driving.

1. Round one of testing.
Gas millage dramatically decreased when using the generator. Used anywhere from 1 oz - 2.5 oz of KOH per quart of distilled water. Did about 3,400 miles of testing.

2. Round two of testing.
Read more about HHO and discovered on new car the computer will compensate for the extra oxygen produced from the HHO Generator and will dump more gasoline. Thus lower millage.
So I purchased the FS2-HHO Performance chip from Volo. Absolutely no difference. Did about 2,800 miles of testing.

3. Round three of testing. Someone mentioned that my spark plugs most likely need to be change and they suggested PulseStar. I bought them turned off the HHO generator to get a new base line MPG. Did about 1,500 miles of testing. Wow! never got 20MPG before on the highway. I think these things really work.

4. Round four of testing.
Cleaned the HHO generator, started with 1.5 oz of KOH per quart of distilled water. Turned it back on, drove about 200 miles to get the generator stable, reset the FS2-HHO chip. 1,000 miles later, still no positive results.


HHO generators seems logical, but does this really work????? I see all kinds of reports of how great this is, but never have seen anyone in person that has a generator. Can not find any on-line information of anyone that has done it on a Chevy/GM with the same year and type of engine.

Any thoughts would greatly be appreciated.

Have a great day!

[myoldyourgold]

KDC, Do you know what the active surface area of your reactor is? If not measure the diameter of the O ring seal and let us know, so we can calculate it. If I am right your reactor uses rubber O rings to seal each cell. If I am wrong let us know. That particular design is not the best. The reason we need this information is so we can calculate what your reactor is really able to produce with out producing a lot of steam. Have you ask for assistance form the manufacturer? If not I suggest you do and let us know what they say. Thank you Sir.

[forumsKDC]

Thank you koya1893 and myoldyourgold for your replies. I will gather the requested information/photos and post.

[forumsKDC]

Hello,

Hope all is well with everyone. Here are answers to previous questions from koya1893 and myoldyourgold.

1. The diameter of the O rings is 3 inches.
2. 9 plates, o-rings between each plate.
3. Plate connections;
negative,none,none,none,positive,none,none,none,ne gative.
none means I could not see any connection to positive or negative.
4. I did see an article regarding that a good ratio is 1/4 liter of HHO gas per minute per 1 liter of engine size. koya1893 you stated about 1/2 liter per minute per 1 liter of engine size. I will ramp up the ratio. At one time I had 30 amps on the meter, but did not have the Volo Chip yet. Performance did not change.
5. I have 4 o2 sensors, two before the catalytic converter and two after. I am going to bring my case before the Volo chip maker and work that angle until it seems hope less or good results.

Links are of the installation and a bubble test. I saw this bubble on a video and thought I would give it a go.

Installation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHlUsJN3pUs
Popping Bubbles
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCOTICRgtNg


I added the small round reservoir to trap liquids. Some time during my testing I took the air intake of the manifold and notice a corrosion build-up just before the intake louver. It did not look good and was very concerned. Did some more research and discovered why.

My current installation is a temporary setup, my goal is to move the generator lower into a cavity in the center of the bumper and move the bubbler further back in the engine compartment in a space designed for a second battery. To do this, I will have to get creative with making support brackets. I would like to see some positive results before I start spending time making brackets.

I will contact Volo about their chip and push them to see why it is not working.

Thank you for your questions and information.

Have a great day.

If there is anyone that lives in or around the Houston area that has a working installation, sure would love to see it.

[myoldyourgold]

Hope all is well with everyone. Here are answers to previous questions from koya1893 and myoldyourgold.

1. The diameter of the O rings is 3 inches.
2. 9 plates, o-rings between each plate.
3. Plate connections;
negative,none,none,none,positive,none,none,none,ne gative.
none means I could not see any connection to positive or negative.
4. I did see an article regarding that a good ratio is 1/4 liter of HHO gas per minute per 1 liter of engine size. koya1893 you stated about 1/2 liter per minute per 1 liter of engine size. I will ramp up the ratio. At one time I had 30 amps on the meter, but did not have the Volo Chip yet. Performance did not change.
5. I have 4 o2 sensors, two before the catalytic converter and two after. I am going to bring my case before the Volo chip maker and work that angle until it seems hope less or good results.

Your reactor has 2 stacks each with 4 cells. The active area is 4.713 sq. inches. You should not be running this reactor at more than 5 amps. Over amping it will just make heat and steam not much gas and will destroy the plates. It will also pollute your electrolyte with CR VI a no no. The reactor also has 3.45 volts per cell. This should not exceed 2.3 volts. This just makes way to much heat too. That is some of the bad news and one reason why you will never see any gains. This reactor is a very wasteful design. If you went to square gaskets it would help a little possibly. I do not know the actual size of the plates to really determine that. You would need to have at least 5 N (bipolar plates) in each stack so you need to add a total of 4 more plates, 2 in each stack. This still would not be enough. You will need to make over 2.5 lpm in order to see some results if everything else works. I know you will not be able to do that at the 5 amps this reactor should run on. It will take a 6" X 6", 6 cell (5 N) 3 stack to achieve this with out over amping. -nnnnn+nnnnn-nnnnn+. You can run this one as high as 37 amps and not over amp it. Now as far as Volo goes ask the manufacture to hook you up with someone with your engine that is having success and go to school on him. If not you will need a Quad digital EFI and possibly a MAF/MAP adjuster too. That is a lot to digest and I hope all who read this learn something before you go and spend your money. There are some basic rules that are a good starting point and have been posted many times please everyone learn them and follow them. It will save you a lot of time and money.

I just watched the videos and two thing I would like to mention. Your bubbler needs to have much more liquid in it and a diffuser if it dose not. The bubbler technology is something you might want to study in order to avoid expensive engine repairs in the future. There is a lot posted about this on this forum. The second thing is that reactor just is not putting out enough to do much if anything for your car. You will need a reactor that has a study continuous stream of bubbles. You should not be able to count them. The water should be bubbling up like a fountain at 2.5 to 3 liters per minute.

[forumsKDC]

Hello,

Thank you myoldyourgold for the specific information. There is so much information that it is hard to see the truth.

Nice to see calculations.

I will see what I can find for diffuser bubbler's, larger surfaced cells and see what Volo says about my issue.

I try to keep the liquid level below 60% because any higher, the liquid goes out to the engine, thus the reason why I have that small round bottle to catch any liquids. Just curious, what is your opinion of that design to catch any liquids?

1. In your post you mentioned 6 cells to achieve 2.3 volts per cell or lower. Is there any gain to lower the voltage by added more cells? A seven cell would be 1.97 volts, an eight cell would be 1.75 volts.

2. Is it better to have a three stack single unit or three separate one stack units?

3. Is the square flat plate design the best design for a generator?

4. I saw in an advertisement of someone's cell that the more plates, the less amps required for the same production rate. Is this true?

5. You mentioned a 6 x 6 square cell. If the surface area is the same, can a cell be rectangle? Lets say 4 x 8!

6. Which is better, both hose connections on the same side of the generator, or one on either side of the generator?

7. You showed a 19 plate configuration -nnnnn+nnnnn-nnnnn+
I see a lot of 21 plate designs -nnn+nnn-nnn+nnn-nnn+
Seems like a 21 plates design will not get the voltage down!

So far the best price I can find for a 19 plate 6x6 $155 includes shipping.

I wish I could see even a small gain before I spend more money!

Again, Thanks for your valuable time in responding to my post.

[forumsKDC]

Thank koya1893, I get the picture?

I notice that your reactor has the two hose connection on opptisite sides. Does that make a difference as compared to both hose connectors on the same side?

Thanks

[astrocady]

Just thought I'd but my 2 cents in to verify what Carter and Ben have said.

Your main problem is your reactor it way to small for your engine. I wouldn't start blaming volo yet -- get a properly sized reactor and if you still don't see appropriate gains, then call volo.

If I were building a system for your truck, I would use one of my large reactors, that has thirteen 8"x10" plates and would set the PWM at 45 amps where that system would produce a little over 3 LPM.

Judging from the bubbles in your video, your reactor is producing only about 1/4 lpm -- maybe less.

Steve

[myoldyourgold]

Hello,

Thank you myoldyourgold for the specific information. There is so much information that it is hard to see the truth.

Nice to see calculations.

I will see what I can find for diffuser bubbler's, larger surfaced cells and see what Volo says about my issue.

http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/1560/Porous-Plastic-Diffusers/air%20stone/4

P3534 .22cfm should do the job.

I try to keep the liquid level below 60% because any higher, the liquid goes out to the engine, thus the reason why I have that small round bottle to catch any liquids. Just curious, what is your opinion of that design to catch any liquids?

Check out Koyo’s two bubbler system or astro's and they can explain it. I use a vacuum operated solenoid as a vacuum break. It is naturally open so when you turn off the key the reactor sucks air into the system. It has a one way valve and flash back arrester in this part of the system too. It is much more expensive and maybe over kill.

1. In your post you mentioned 6 cells to achieve 2.3 volts per cell or lower. Is there any gain to lower the voltage by added more cells? A seven cell would be 1.97 volts, an eight cell would be 1.75 volts.

There are a couple of things here. One is that usually there is some voltage drop and so you really are only getting 2 Volts or even slightly less depending on how good your connections are and wire size. Taking that into consideration 6 cells is what most like. Now if you have very good connections and the right size wire and no, to little loss, then a 7 cell is preferred IMHO. That also goes for eight cells but I am not sure the added expense in wire and connections are worth it for eight cells. I am going to test an eight cell in the next few weeks.

2. Is it better to have a three stack single unit or three separate one stack units?

I think the only benefit is cost. 19 plates compared to 21 more tubing connection etc. Flow problems might be a lot less in separate one stack units.

3. Is the square flat plate design the best design for a generator?

This is debatable. In my study which would take more time than I am willing to spend to explain right now, it does in simple brute force. The square part has to do with bubbles coming up and finding their way out. With out an explanation of the science here it is very simply. The longer distance the bubbles have to travel the potential of them joining and making larger bubbles is greater and this has been proven to increase resistance, block formation of new bubbles, block bubbles coming from below, and create hot spots which could contribute to formation of CR VI. How much over square does this have to be to make a difference has not been tested or verified by me. There are a lot of very excellent over square reactors out their. They seam to perform very well. The question is, would they perform better if they were square. I suspect so, but by how much is unknown to me.

4. I saw in an advertisement of someone's cell that the more plates, the less amps required for the same production rate. Is this true?

I think they might have it wrong. Adding more stacks, not more plates in a stack would give you this result.

5. You mentioned a 6 x 6 square cell. If the surface area is the same, can a cell be rectangle? Lets say 4 x 8!

A rectangle lying horizontal has less active surface area because of the room the gas takes up at the top say .5 to 1 inch. A rectangle standing perpendicular will have the bubble problem explained above but if made right will give excellent results but maybe not as good as a square.

6. Which is better, both hose connections on the same side of the generator, or one on either side of the generator?

This is a long topic and has to do with flow. The object is to have equal flow, amount of electrolyte, and temperature in each cell. The middle cells of a poor flowing reactor will be hotter than the outer ones or one side will be hotter than the other. A perfect set up has everything equal!!! (Volts, amps, temp, electrolyte, flow etc) This can be helped by outlets and inlets on both sides in some reactors. There is a lot more involved here and has to do with where the gas holes are located on the plates, size, where the balance holes are and if all holes are insulated and on and on. No holes is ideal. You will find lots of information on this forum and others on this subject.

7. You showed a 19 plate configuration -nnnnn+nnnnn-nnnnn+
I see a lot of 21 plate designs -nnn+nnn-nnn+nnn-nnn+
Seems like a 21 plates design will not get the voltage down!

You are right

So far the best price I can find for a 19 plate 6x6 $155 includes shipping.

I build mine from scratch and spend more than that on a reactor just in plates (22 plates).

I wish I could see even a small gain before I spend more money!

I wish I had a solution for you, but I do not, and unless you can find someone near you who has had some success and is willing to share their experience with you, you have only your research to go on. A quality reactor is expensive and gains are much more than the reactor!

Again, Thanks for your valuable time in responding to my post.

You are welcome. I usually can not spare the time and am going to be very busy in the days ahead and will have to limit my posting. I need some sleep. LOL


Results are indicative of the struggles many have had with reactors regardless of manufacturer. It is very difficult to implement on a vehicle that was not designed to utilize the improved combustion and cleaner emissions.

Even though it is difficult to implement on a typical automobile research of the technical literature has shown that when implemented correctly this technology can provide significant improvement. The published research shows that a gain is at least 20% and is experienced by many.

[myoldyourgold]

My recent design, although already being used but first for me. I have two exit hose on the top and one for feed hose, this cell makes more HHO so I thought I would give it a second hose to exit to prevent pressure build up in the cell.

Koya, I first must compliment you on your set up and the good results you have been getting. Very neat work. I also would like to point out that what you want to achieve in each cell is equal pressure and flow. By this I mean the pressure of the electrolyte input must be equal to the pressure on the top of the each cell. You might be achieving that by adding another exit port. If not the cell will not perform as well. The bottom pressure must equal the top pressure when running and at operating temperature. At start up the bottom might have more pressure and flood the cells. When you have equal pressure the electrolyte level stays the same and doesn't go up and down. The right amount of pressure also helps keep the bubbles small and thus results in a more efficient reactor. Keep up the good work. Have you had time to change the injection timing on your diesel?