First Cell

[GavinCross]

Hey guys I'm new to your forum just took time to register yesterday. So after finding thousands of like minded people and at least a few heavily active people I decided to lay my head down somewhere. Anyways strait away to my point, I'm building my first cell in the next couple of months, as long as the wife will let me pull money out for it, and I just wanted some advice. First off the vehicle is a Pontiac Sunfire 2000 with a 1.6L 4 cylinder engine. Worked on it on many occasions so I'm comfortable with it. It gets about a 26-32mpg spread at 160k miles not bad at all for efficiency but I want more. I've been around the HHO block for about 4ish years now not pipping up but being a silent observer and its time to get some hands dirty. Have watched the progression from water4gas up to the 20lpm dry cells of today I'm proud of the community working out the kinks in ECM and other problems.
Okay sorry for ranting point here is I want to build anywhere from a 3lpm to 6lpm dry cell i know its over kill but when i buy a used Jeep Grand Cherokee in a few months its going to go on that too. So far I have decided on a 8x8 dry cell 316l about 20 gauge. I'm not sure on the specifics of how many plates but I'm thinking about 21 or so. Using the basic taro cell design. Need to know where to buy my gaskets I'm in Arizona so if anyone in the area has some good connections would love to chat. Also need some help with building bubbler and water reservoir ideas, I've not found plans on how to keep your electrolyte at a consistent level. Okay sorry its so long, I'm hoping not to get flamed to badly for my first post all help and ideas will be greatly appreciated and taken seriously. Thanks in advance.

[BioFarmer93]

Hey Gavin,
Welcome to the forum. The e-lyzer, bubblers & reservoir are the easy parts and what you'll probably build first, just keep your ears open for who makes the best EFIE for your particular vehicle because that's the critical component that will determine the effectiveness of the rest of it.
21 plates? Basic taro? I have never heard of taro and 4 pages into a Google search for "taro cell" didn't turn up any hits. I'm sure it's out there somewhere, I just couldn't find it. Also, you probably want to go with 22 plates to make more efficient use of your voltage [+llllll-llllll+llllll-].
If you've been lurking for a while then you have read about using Weldon-16 in and around your equalization and gas holes- pretty much mandatory now that the benefit has been revealed.
So, 8x8=64sq.in. per plate, figure 1/2" wide gasket, so now 7x7=49sq.in. per plate... Times 22 plates = 1078sq.in.... And you want to put this on a 1600cc engine... Well, go ahead and see if you can find a higher output alternator that fits your vehicle and upgrade/upsize the current carrying wires in your charging system- a choke point causing lowered efficiency that is seldom mentioned.
EPDM for gaskets is available cheaply at Home Depot as pond liner out in the garden section and is .04" thick. Three gaskets between each plate will give you right at 1/8" spacing, a good compromise distance for keeping the heat fairly low and the production fairly high.
Get your plates sandblasted- don't waste your time crosshatch sanding them, and when you cut them out or get them cut out, cut off only two diagonal corners on your power plates instead of three corners because you want to feed power to diagonally opposed corners of your power plates for better current distribution (SS is a high resistance metal.)
Use only HDPE or UHMW for your end plates- if HDPE use 3/4", if UHMW then you can use 1/2". Use 1/4-20 SS bolts, flat washers & nuts w/ the nylon inserts so you don't have to use lockwashers. When drilling your end plates, do it on a drill press with both endplates clamped together for perfect hole alignment. Choose a drill bit that just lets the shank of the bolt clear with no binding. Use properly sized "Corben" clamps for your hose to barb connections, don't ask me how I know...
Use two 3/16" dia. holes at opposite sides of the bottoms of your plates for equalization, located so they are just clearing the the bottom and side of your gaskets, with enough inset to line up with your nylon supply elbows which should feed from front-right, back-left or vice-versa, just as long as the fresh e-lyte is coming in from the front on one side and back on the other.
Traditionally the e-lyte is supplied from the reservoir in one hose and then "T'd" or "Y'd" right at the unit to flow in both sides. This creates a short (relatively) low resistance path from pos to neg that wastes watts. To combat this just run two supply hoses back to the reservoir and locate them on opposite sides of the reservoir.

I know it's long winded, but I've tried to incorporate everything I can think of at the moment for as far as I've taken it at this sitting... Got to get back to work now...

[GavinCross]

That is probably one of the most informative messages I've seen in a while. I'm very much in awe of a great response and quickly. I'm at work and can't delve into the material to much but its going to be a great help when I'm building my cell. Thanks again.

http://www.umpquaenergy.com/hydrogen.../tero_cell.pdf

PDF with basic cell design, it was Tero not Taro my apologize. Not going to follow it word for word but it is pretty well written and has a lot of work and explanations. It's not the best or newest creation I've seen around but something in PDF to follow. If you have any revisions for size and design let me know, i know that 8x8 is a bit large for what i need.

[lhazleton]

Really nice basic explanation, Gus!
When I asked you about something or other a year or so ago,
I believe your reply was "bite me" or something of that nature.
Just kidding..........that was a good post though!

[BioFarmer93]

Aw, jeez Lee... That was before I got to know what a prince of a fellow you are...

...And Gavin, I've seen that before- just forgot what it was called. We really can't let you go out in public with that old thing, so in the spirit of the season I'm drawing up an updated version for you (and maybe all beginners, what say ye forum?) Even though a lot of folks are starting to experiment with unipolar electrolyzers lately, I think the bipolar style (Tero) will still be the go-to format for a while, but there are big things happening in HHO these days and I'm virtually on the edge of my seat lately with all of the new developments.
So, I'm going to finish this up and present it here for MT&C (Mentor Tweaking and Critiquing) in the next day or two, and perhaps we can present the HHO community with a straight forward output adaptable design that lends itself in its build-ability to garage HHOers everywhere.

[GavinCross]

Honestly knew i stopped the right place . I can agree that I have seen quite a bit of great development in the past year or so since I stopped paying attention. Been working, and working on side projects. I thank you for your effort to make a more updated version of the pdf I had before. I think its a great starting point and gives good information on the process. But like you said it is very outdated and i wouldn't want it on my vehicle. I'm sure the rest of the learning community will do well from a updated write up. Thank you again.

[BioFarmer93]

Gavin, apologies for taking so long- I have been working on it but have also been building a fuel heater for my truck (diesel) since this weather turned cold and the waste motor oil I'm running in it isn't flowing at the same viscosity as it was when warmer... Anyway, here is the preliminary drawing- not dimensioned or noted yet, but the plates are 8x8 to give you a feel for it. I finished and installed the heater this evening, so I should be able to devote some time to this tomor-- er, later today.. Good night- Gus