sort of totally lost

[ozzie cager]

Hi, new member to the forum here. First off I would like to thank all the moderators and experimenters for their hard work.

That being said, I would very much like to try to build and test a cell on my vehicle, but I am having trouble finding the most up to date information. I would like to take the least amount of steps and build the least amount of cells. I do not want to make several mistakes that other people already have made just because I didn't have weeks to read all the forum material. I know that most, if not all, of the answers are _somewhere_ on here, but it is hard to find any straightforward information. I am proposing that whoever runs this board and/or the most knowledgeable folks put together a simple wiki, how-to, faq, or even just some stickies that is/are updated frequently and geared towards the newb (DIYer) in getting started with a cell.

The most important things it would contain are tips on basic cell design - for maximum (or just decent) efficiency and the best types of materials that are easily available. It would explain the crucial equations that are commonly agreed upon in this forum and in general (such as .5 lpm per litre of engine displacement, plate surface area vs electrolyte vs volume of cell and their relationship to current draw, how to control voltage and quite simply just a ballpark suggestion of the settings that i need to tweak to make my setup a _starting point_ for experimentation). It would also have a list of safety tips and precautions. It would explain what we know so far about overheating, amp draw, wire gauges, etc etc. It would contain explanations of the accessories that are REQUIRED to experiment (bubbler, filter, valves, EFIE etc). If we really wanted to go overboard, it could also contain a couple examples of complete systems installed on different types of vehicles/engines with which the primary authorities of this board agree would in theory work, or already have been proven to work.

It would basically allow someone who has never heard of this technology and who is reasonably mechanically inclined to understand the concept and become up-to-date on the latest findings that the hardcore experimenters and the leagues of garage people have determined to be crucial knowledge in cell building and experimentation.

For example.. I could start building a cell this week, but who knows what the most efficient plate layout would be? The one I have seen the most of is the stainless canister with the concentric plates inside. This is the cell I would build, because it is what I have seen. I have no idea if there has been any huge discovery since people started making cells like this simply because there is too much information here. Does anyone feel me?

I also have several _stupid_ questions that would inevitably **** off the experts on the board if I asked them (like where do I (cheaply) buy or how do i (cheaply) construct a device to measure dc amperage; can this work on a carb/points ignition system; what is the best/cheapest high-powered alternator one can buy and from where; what exactly is a PWM for etc etc). These are things that are supposedly common knowledge here but which would take me days, even weeks sorting through posts and posting useless messages like this one (which is further clogging the board with posts for others to wade through).

Basically I'm asking for a summary of all the findings that have been agreed upon here so far in a file that is updated from time to time. This would save a lot of bandwidth and wasted time for a lot of people and also save people from getting screwed on scams. The more organized the information is the more we can get down to business testing and building. Like I'm sure there's still people trying to build from the obnoxious water4gas pdfs.. I just finished reading them a couple months ago. Like it or not, the information in those pdfs is geared towards newbs and fairly straightforward, albeit horribly written and unscientific.

A definitive faq from the [english] internet's definitive resource would be of great help and i think it is time.

If there already is something like this then kindly ignore this post (while still somehow hinting where it is located)

PS I am not a technical writer but i do enjoy it and will kindly organize the information and write a draft of the faq if someone wishes to present it to me in bulk. Thanks again.

[hg2]

Do mean something like this OZZIE?All this and more can be found here:http://www.panaceauniversity.org/Hydroxy%20Boosters.pdf

Q-What is a hydroxy booster?
A-The Term” hydroxy booster” describes an electrolyzer that is designed to be simple,
compact and to produce hydroxy gas. Hydroxy gas is being produced in order to
“boost” the vehicle or generator by improving MPG (miles per gallon) performance,
improving the burn quality of the fuel thus reducing any unwanted emissions, produce
more power and to clean out old carbon deposits inside the engine. This is done by
booster being added to the air entering the engine.
Q-What is “brute force DC” and what is pulse DC under resonance?
A- Brute force DC refers using straight DC current to power a booster with electrolyte in
it. All current boosters use brute force DC created from their cars battery in order to
produce the hydroxy gas. Pulsed DC refers to using a pulse width modulator and
resonance refers to using it under certain conditions, IE with no electrolyte and with
additional circuitry like a “choke” (Bifilar coil) to limit current and produce resonance.
The only exception is the Bob Boyce system which employs electrolyte and resonant
conditions.
Q- Can I buy a readymade booster and who can I get to install it?
A-Currently there are a few open source engineers doing readymade boosters in order
to help themselves fiancé their open source research and development. Please
consider them before others. Not only are the open source designs better, but they are
also cheaper. Currently as of mid 2008 the most respected booster is Wouter’s and
Praveens Tubular cells, Bob series cells and the “Smacks: booster. Other designs are on
the way, you can keep up with thee designs by checking the Panacea University site.
Booster materials
Q-What safety devices are needed?
A-It is essential to install TWO “bubblers” to prevent damage encase the engine
backfires. Two bubblers also wash any traces of electrolyte vapor out of the gas being
fed to the engine.
Q-How are bubblers made?
The generic bubbler is made from any tall plastic container with a tight lid. The pipe
carrying the gas is inserted through the lid to near the bottom of the container, which is
then filled to at least a 5-inch depth of water. The gas takeoff pipe is inserted through
the lid for half an inch or so, and shielded from splashes.
Q- What is an electrolyzer?
A-An electrolyzer is a device made up of stainless steel and electrolyte intended to
convert water to hydroxy gas. The Aim is to do this in considerable volumes and at the
minimum possible current. There are several designs which you could build which vary
in efficiency.
Q-What is electrolyte?
An electrolyte is a catalyst chemical added to water to make water more conductive
to current or to make electrolysis easier. The best one to use is evaluated by its ability to
not be consumed during electrolysis. Both KOH and NaOH have been found to be the
best.
Q-What current is needed?
Electrical current for boosters usually ranges from 10 to 35 amps, typically 20 amps and
15 amps. In the case of Bob Boyce’s unit, 350 watts is needed. In the Dave Lawton
circuit typically up to 4 amps of pulsed DC are desired.
Q- What is an electrode?
An electrode refers to a piece of metal which is placed in an electrolyte in order to
allow electrical current to be passed through the electrolyte. The best electrode
material to use is commonly agreed to be 316L-grade (“food-grade”) stainless steel.
You can also use 304 or 302 stainless steal in brute force DC boosters. These materials
are selected in the brute force booster’s case to be the best corrosive resistant
materials; in the case of resonant hydroxy systems are 316L (Seamless not wielded) is
chosen
Q-How big should electrodes be?
Electrodes get eroded with use if the area of (one side of) the electrode is less than 2
square inches (1290 square mm) per amp of current carried. Erosion reduces and gas
production is improved with increasing electrode area up to 4 square inches per amp.
Above that, no noticeable improvement has been seen is seen.
Q-How thick should electrodes be?
There are a few things to consider, the first is how thin the electrode material is in
comparison to how difficult it would be to hold it securely in place. It is usual for the
gap between electrodes to be quite small, so 20 gauge or 22 gauges - say 1/16 inch is
generally chosen. Thicker plates weigh more, cost more and take up more space.
Q-Do the electrodes wear out?
A-In a properly designed and operated electrolyzer, the plates will be in first-class
condition after a year of use. The best shelf life reported so far is from using stainless
steel, distilled water and KOH or NaOH for electrolyte.
Q- How much water will be used?
A-It is estimated that one liter of water produces about 1,850 liters of hydroxy gas. In the
example of the Smacks booster which can produce 1.7 LPM (liters per minute) of
hydroxy gas, this will use 1 liter of water in 1,090 "minutes" of running.
Q-Can I use any kind of water?
Use ONLY distilled or de-ionized water as other varieties like rain, spring and tap water
leave residues behind when the water becomes gas.
Q-What happens if I forget to top the booster up with water?
The electrodes will become partially uncovered and the gas production will drop off, so
you should keep an eye on the water level.
Q- Which is better Acrylic or PVC?
Experience with acrylic in other fabrication projects has shown that it doesn't like heat,
vibration or many chemical substances especially in a prolonged exposed
environment, for example a motor vehicles engine compartment. It gets brittle and will
craze (small cracks) when exposed to many chemical or solvent compounds such as
lacquer thinner, acetone and I think gasoline.
It also doesn't take impacts as well as PVC and when it does fail, shatters with sharp
edges. From a practical building stand point PVC is a cheap preferred choice and easy
to work with, materials and fittings readily available most anywhere, no special solvents
to buy or try and deal with (Weldon-4 can be tricky), and usually much less costly.
Q-How can I measure gas output?
The cheap and easy way to measure hydroxy flow is to do what is called a
displacement test. First fill a basin with water. Fill a plastic soda bottle with water and
position it upside down with the neck under the water in the basin. Feed the tube from
your bubbler up into the neck of the bottle, and measure the length of time taken to fill
the bottle with gas. Example- If the bottle is 2 liters and it takes four minutes to fill it with
gas, then the gas production rate is 2 liters / 4 minutes = 0.5 lpm.
Q-How is a booster connected to a vehicle?
A-The hydroxy booster is first connected through two bubblers and then into the air
filter.
Q-Does the engine timing need to be changed?
When using a booster which produces LESS then 3LPM there is no need to adjust any
thing. At 3LPM the hydroxy gas ceases to be a fossil fuel enhancer and starts to
become a second fuel in its own right. As the gas production rate increases further, the
spark timing needs to be delayed (“retarded”) gradually. The maximum delay is to a
point some 12 degrees after Top Dead Center.
Q-Will my engine rusts from using a hydroxy booster?
No. Hydroxy gas is understood to be a very helpful additive and/or fuel. Hydrogen first
burns inside the engine, then the by product is steam which then only becomes water
as it condenses and cools OUT SIDE of the cars exhaust.
Q-what about Hydrogen embrittlement?
A-Reports have stated that hydrogen embrittlement does not occur. This is mainly a
concern in storage tanks under high pressure. Iron has so much space between the
atoms that hydrogen can seep right through it. In an engine all iron parts are covered
with a thin film of oil which helps prevent the hydrogen from contacting the metal.
Since gasoline is composed of about 500 different hydrogen carbon compounds, when
it is heated the hydrogen is released to mix with oxygen from the air, a spark ignites it
and the carbon is left inside the cylinder to foul the oil and accelerate wear of all the
moving parts.
Storing hydrogen does not cause metal embrittlement. Hydrogen has been stored in
pressure tanks like oxygen since WWI. And these tanks are still in use today. Some have
been tested by Roy McAlister just for that purpose. And no embrittlement was found, or
any special type of metal was used for the tanks. The point is that unless you are making
pools of liquid metal, hydrogen embrittlement is unlikely to occur with the low
concentration of hydrogen we are seeing. A common ICE generally doesn't run that
hot, if it does, we have other major problems.
Q-Can I use a booster with a turbocharger?
This can be done by feeding the hydroxy gas to the low-pressure side of the
turbocharger.
Q- Can a booster work on fuel injected cars and what is an EFIE?
A-EFIE is an acronym standing for “electronic fuel injection enhancer”. It is required for
all fuel injected cars to accept or use a booster. More reading on this is described
above.
Q-what is the best booster to use?
A-Currently the best booster to use based on efficiency and cheap construction
materials is the Smacks booster, however for those who do longer trips in their car, for
example 2 Hour + trips , it is advised to use a “7 series plate cell” or a tubular cell design.
Q-What can I do to prevent freezing of the water ion my booster?
A- Electrolyte concentration needs to be high to prevent freezing. Alternatively you can
put a heating/cooling coil around the unit (engine coolant driven)or wrap the booster
with fiberglass foil backed insulation. NaOH (like KOH) at "moderate" (20%)
concentration makes a reasonable anti-freeze. It will freeze at about -10 F. KOH at 28%
will not freeze even in Norway. The bubblers can contain some antifreeze.

[ozzie cager]

SWEET.

I guess i was having trouble finding that because I was looking up "HHO" instead of "hydroxy booster". heh.

this should shut me up for a few hours.