Electrolyte Vapor Filtration

[koya1893]

This is one experiment I have not shared with everyone, because Lee gave us a good example what happens when a "bubbler" or scrubber is not used to filter the HHO before it enters the intake area.

What I did was run a cell for 8 hours straight (this is when I was using KOH) without a bubbler, straight from the reservoir. Pointed the outlet in a simulater intake with a throttle body I got from the junk yard, even small trace of KOH is carried through and eventually coat the surface of the butterfly is will attached itself to the surface and slowly eat away at the part. specially if it is made of aluminum, so if the grid up aluminum is used to filter the HHO and any small amount attached itself to that the filteration. It will make HHO even after the system is turn off, because that activity is doing it's own things in what even size tube or canister you are using as a filter.

Maybe I am missing something here, with two bubbler set up and running the HHO through an "air stone" to break up the huges bubbles which is carrying KOH fumes through some vinegar, then run it through a heat exchanger should eliminate any fumes with KOH being induced in the intake.

I have 22K on my F-150, at 20k I inspected the system including the throttle body. There was no sign of corrorion, then again I've been trying to keep my system simple to the point of less and less maintenance is required. so if I am missing something someone wake up this "olde salty chief" so i can learn something new.

[Roland Jacques]

I ran a test once with tightly packed Aluminum wool in a 3" dia by 6" long PVC reactor. My goal was to eliminate a bubbler all together. The gas came in from the side of the pvc pipe 2" from the bottom and into a 90 pointed down. The gas raised slowly to the top outlet fitting. It also had a drain at the bottom for condsation draining. The idea was to have the drain on a solenoid that opened when the engine was off. (never got to that part) It seemed to work good, but i really did not test it enough to say one way or an other. I also had concerns of the wool breaking down over time and being suck into the intake.

In retrospect i would try this again but make the reactor out of SS and add heat to it. But that's another subject.

Activated Carbon may not be a good choice, it is used for removing Gases... i wonder if it would recombine HHO or have negative effects on HHO reactivity? Also activated carbon does not trap Potassium other alkaline's & salts etc in Aquariums. so...

[redrat100]

"...Use an acidic substance that when picked up by the HHO, aids in combustion and neutralizes the alkaline...

Yup, did that too. I ran electrolyte in my reservoir, vinegar in my bubbler with a small porous fish tank aerator and out through a desiccant filter. The thing about the vinegar bubbler is that the bubbles never got small enough to neutralize all of the NaOh vapor. So the way I see it is by using a desiccant filter you absorb the NaOh (or KOh) bearing moisture. And, this is more accurate if you are doing MMW measurements because you are only measuring the dry gas volume and not gas mixed with water vapor.

Also, the thing about using aluminum filings: Aluminum will react with NaOh and KOh with water to produce an exothermic reaction with hydrogen as a by product. When the reaction is complete you will be left with a filter full of white powdery aluminum oxide which can be ingested into your engine.

[oicu812]

Also, the thing about using aluminum filings: Aluminum will react with NaOh and KOh with water to produce an exothermic reaction with hydrogen as a by product. When the reaction is complete you will be left with a filter full of white powdery aluminum oxide which can be ingested into your engine.

true but if you run it through a bubbler and filter after the aluminium filings the aluminium oxide would never make it to the intake.

[redrat100]

Also true. It seems like a matter of which filter media one likes to replace and how complex of a system one wants. Charcoal, desiccant or aluminum. All require maintenance at some point. Of the three, charcoal is probably the cheapest. My preference is still desiccant because I know it dries the HHO and I can tell with a glance if it needs changing.

[myoldyourgold]

Originally Posted by myoldyourgold View Post
"...Use an acidic substance that when picked up by the HHO, aids in combustion and neutralizes the alkaline...

Yup, did that too. I ran electrolyte in my reservoir, vinegar in my bubbler with a small porous fish tank aerator and out through a desiccant filter. The thing about the vinegar bubbler is that the bubbles never got small enough to neutralize all of the NaOh vapor. So the way I see it is by using a desiccant filter you absorb the NaOh (or KOh) bearing moisture. And, this is more accurate if you are doing MMW measurements because you are only measuring the dry gas volume and not gas mixed with water vapor.

Also, the thing about using aluminum filings: Aluminum will react with NaOh and KOh with water to produce an exothermic reaction with hydrogen as a by product. When the reaction is complete you will be left with a filter full of white powdery aluminum oxide which can be ingested into your engine.

Red Rat, I never said anything about vinegar. Vinegar does not aid in the combustion. Think some more.

[oicu812]

Also true. It seems like a matter of which filter media one likes to replace and how complex of a system one wants. Charcoal, desiccant or aluminum. All require maintenance at some point. Of the three, charcoal is probably the cheapest. My preference is still desiccant because I know it dries the HHO and I can tell with a glance if it needs changing.

its a little pricy but calcium hydride would make a great dring agent. christ... they used to fill blimps with the stuff. Just add water.

[astrocady]

I think you're all over reacting. I use one, well designed (IMO) bubbler utilizing a porous plastic aerator and I can see no signs of vapors coming out, even when running at 4 lpm. I've directed the gas output onto a piece of angle aluminum for several days, and saw no corrosion.

Steve

[myoldyourgold]

I agree 100% Sir. I have had the same result with the same diffuser. I am just improving on combustion and avoiding the EFIE.

[oicu812]

I think you're all over reacting. I use one, well designed (IMO) bubbler utilizing a porous plastic aerator and I can see no signs of vapors coming out, even when running at 4 lpm. I've directed the gas output onto a piece of angle aluminum for several days, and saw no corrosion.

Steve

yeah but would'nt be great to turn that 4 Lpm into 5 Lpm without having to add additional amperage. Seams to me if you can squeeze out more efficientcy in any device its an improvement.