New To HHO. Got Questions About Plate Material and Electrolytes

[charliebrumfield]

well i've made the first step towards having a fully working hho reactor. i bought enough titanium to make all the cathodes. i decided to go this route for the cathode as i found enough of it for cheep. ended up costing me a bit less than 2 bucks per 4" x 6" plate shipped.

now i'm trying to figure out what to use as an anode. titanium won't work for the anode as oxygen collects on the anode and oxidizes the titanium which ceases the electrolysis process.

nurdrage has a good vid showing this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZDRzMGa6c

i would love to use nickel but i have yet to find a source that sells nickel at prices i can afford. cheapest i have found is the shim stock that was suggested earlier in the thread, but i can't find it any thicker than .010". i'm not comfortable using anything less that .020". my ideal thickness would be .025"

does anyone have a link to somewhere selling nickel shim stock thicker than .010"?

if i can't find nickel i may purchase some grafoil gtx (chemically resistant pure flexible graphite foil) and try it. i've seen where folks have tried to make hho reactors out of graphite with some success so i'm willing to give it a try. i really don't want to use 316l stainless steel so i'm going to try everything i can to avoid it.

[myoldyourgold]

i really don't want to use 316l stainless steel so i'm going to try everything i can to avoid it.

Charlie, can you explain your disdain for 316L

[charliebrumfield]

Charlie, can you explain your disdain for 316L

stainless steel has some really nasty stuff in it that i do not want to have to dispose of or work with if i do not have too. as a rule i try to avoid working with stainless steel if i can. it can cause some real nasty side effects if you inhale the fumes while welding it. and i'm positive those same chemicals are produced through electrolysis as you get when you weld it.

Below is a quote from the eLCOSH website about the working hazards of stainless steel. Click the quote to see the full article.

Stainless steel contains nickel and chromium, which can cause asthma. Nickel and chromium 6 can cause cancer. Chromium can cause sinus problems and “holes” between the nostrils.

if i can't find another suitable anode i'll have to use 316 ss but i want to try and avoid it if possible.

[arcronis]

Hi Charlie, why is the dry cell left open??
Why could it not be a sealed unit just thinking along the leakage scenero...
If it is for heat transfer?
Why couldn't the unit be filled with a heat absorbent liquid, sorry for all the questions but I look at it and see this as possibly a great way to control the heat and any small leakage......Charlie your views will be really appreciated
cheers from the land down under

[BioFarmer93]

Arcronis,
The term "dry cell" is relative, it is actually filled with a distilled water and KOH mixture that makes up the electrolyte from which the hydrogen and oxygen are electrochemically extracted. It is not left open as there would be no way to collect the gasses created. Typically dry cells are sealed up quite well with gaskets and clamping pressure from bolts & nuts that hold the entire structure together. The bubble lift and thermosiphon effects from the operation of the of the unit continually carry heat away from it. A well designed electrolyzer operated within proper parameters will not overheat. If you have not already, I would recommend you peruse several HHO videos on Youtube and look closely at the construction. As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words.

[charliebrumfield]

Hi Charlie, why is the dry cell left open??
Why could it not be a sealed unit just thinking along the leakage scenero...
If it is for heat transfer?
Why couldn't the unit be filled with a heat absorbent liquid, sorry for all the questions but I look at it and see this as possibly a great way to control the heat and any small leakage......Charlie your views will be really appreciated
cheers from the land down under

well my views are by no means expert as i have yet to build a working dry cell reactor so i shall refer you to biofarmer's post

Arcronis,
The term "dry cell" is relative, it is actually filled with a distilled water and KOH mixture that makes up the electrolyte from which the hydrogen and oxygen are electrochemically extracted. It is not left open as there would be no way to collect the gasses created. Typically dry cells are sealed up quite well with gaskets and clamping pressure from bolts & nuts that hold the entire structure together. The bubble lift and thermosiphon effects from the operation of the of the unit continually carry heat away from it. A well designed electrolyzer operated within proper parameters will not overheat. If you have not already, I would recommend you peruse several HHO videos on Youtube and look closely at the construction. As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words.

and becuase i'm feeling generous and happen fo have a bunch of links to hho videos here's a few for you to look at

probably the best video on hho reactor design i have found. a bit boring but very informative.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUYa2UhnSeM

good time lapse video showing the build of a small reactor

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Q4H9C8N2LY

[Brent]

Charlie,
Search for Nickel200. Plates only need to be .025"-.03" thick. Look for rolls of shim stock, probably already at a usable width. Titanium is a waste of money- high resistance. You have the concept down correctly on both of the layouts (6 &7 plate). I'll whip up a quick and dirty sketch on the divider plates, easier than try to explain... OK, maybe this will help- I had it laying around for something else and just added the elbows for clarity.

I measured the ohm resistance of Ti compared to 316 stainless across a 12" length. 316 measured .05 ohms and Ti (6ALV4) measured .03 ohms. Ti is less resistant then SS. Which I suspected but wanted some exact figures.

[BioFarmer93]

Very cool- thank you!

[Brent]

At those measurements it's splitting hairs anyway. It's easily within the margin of error on my Fluke multi-tester.

[charliebrumfield]

I measured the ohm resistance of Ti compared to 316 stainless across a 12" length. 316 measured .05 ohms and Ti (6ALV4) measured .03 ohms. Ti is less resistant then SS. Which I suspected but wanted some exact figures.

thanks for the info. went ahead and snagged some commercially pure ti plates to use for the cathodes. now i'm just looking for something suitable for the anodes. i;m going to try to use grafoil and see if it works. i'll be ordering some this week. if it doesn't work i have a more expensive option that may work, but don't want to spend that much cash unless i have to.