2 small units vs 1 large for Diesel.

[Oshawapilot]

Hey everyone, new here, although I've been lurking for a week or so.

I'm A staff member at large diesel message forum (don't want to mention it unless the admins here don't have an issue with it) and was steered here by another member while discussing HHO generators. Loving all the info here so far.

I'm planning on constructing a HHO setup for my late 90's 6.5 turbo diesel Silverado pickup this weekend and have some questions.

I'm planning to go with the smackbooster design as it seems to be well regarded and documented. My concern is that based on what I've calculated from the info I've gathered I'd need about 3.25L/Min of production to have a good effect on my 6.5L engine.

With the "standard" smackbooster design only putting out about 1.25L/min this will prove to be a problem.

So, am I better to build a larger single generator, or simply build 2 small units and run them parallel to each other? My concern about building one larger one is heat, but on the flipside my concern with building 2 "regular" sized ones is space under the hood to mount everything.

If I go with 2 units, is there any reason I can't/shouldn't run the output from both through a single bubbler, or should I use 2 separate bubblers and them plumb the HHO together only just before injection in the intake?

Amp regulation - I see some people use controllers, and others simply regulate the mix to control amps - what's the best option? Considering it's looking like I'll have 2 separate units, this potentially doubles my build cost if I install 2 separate controllers, so that's a concern from a $$$ perspective.

Lastly, I'm hoping to hunt up some good SS in the coming days (I have access to scrap here and there) but is there a "best" size for the plates, or is it "whatever fits in your tube" ultimately ok so long as you have the number of plates correct? The Smackbooster design uses the switch-cover size, but (for example) if I found 3x12" strips instead, are they suitable? Will a single unit with dramatically larger plates negate the need for a second generator to meet my LPM requirements in the end, or am I just asking for overheating problems?

Thanks in advance for everyones advice here!

Mark

[lhazleton]

Welcome to the forum.
Before you go any further, do more research.
The 'Smackbooster' design is old, open bath style crapola.
Waste of time & money.
Find out all you can about Drycell Reactors and go with that.

[Oshawapilot]

Welcome to the forum.
Before you go any further, do more research.
The 'Smackbooster' design is old, open bath style crapola.
Waste of time & money.
Find out all you can about Drycell Reactors and go with that.

The only issues I have with the drycell units is that they are much more difficult to construct based on the plans I've seen. The DIY factor is dramatically lower unless you order a good portion of it already prefabricated, or have a very well equipped workshop.

[lhazleton]

They're actually pretty simple to construct.
If you're intent on building an inefficient wet-cell design, that's your call.
Investing time & money into something that won't give you the results you're seeking seems like a waste though.
If you check around, most of us started with wet-cells & changed to dry-cells. There's a good reason for it. Dry-cell reactors are efficient, give good results, and won't blow up.

[Oshawapilot]

Ok, I'm all ears. Any pointers towards the best DIY plans for a dry unit build then?

[lhazleton]

They're all over the place.
For diesels, Ben (Koya) is your best bet. He specializes in builds for diesel trucks.

[ultra_efficient]

if you are trying to save fuel you will need to retune your truck or else you wont see much savings but alot of power, to cut back on the additional power and save fuel you should consider retuning your truck. look into using a Bully Dog for diesel and a Apexi AFC for gasoline

links to Bully Dog
http://www.thoroughbreddiesel.com/bully-dog/GT.htm
http://www.bullydog.com/prodline.php...ne=electronics

and yes don't waste time and money on a wet cell, i have in the pass. focus on a dry cell, preferably a dry cell with no holes in the plates.

[Oshawapilot]

The 6.5TD is an old tech IDI diesel that is not easily tuned. Bullydog/H&S (etc) do not make tuners for the 6.5, the only option is a complete ECM swap, and they focus more on power, not fuel mileage. I'm more focused on mileage, any HP gains are completely secondary to me.

With the 6.5 being old tech, and based on everything I've read, it responds well to HHO injection.

[BioFarmer93]

Mark,
Welcome to the forum. I had to do some looking around based on a guess, -you said late 90's, so I looked for a 1998 6.5 Sierra- close enough? Anyway, apparently you do not have an O2 sensor? (That answer was for a '95) But you are running an OBDII engine management system. IF- you truly do not have O2 sensors, then you are golden. Being a Ford (International) diesel guy, and an even older tech diesel than yours, I don't have these worries, but I can tell you that if you are still running a muffler behind that turbo, go ahead and take it off. Being that you are a staffer at a diesel site, I guess I don't have to tell you that though, do I? Before you dump a bunch of money into HHO, here is a check list of things you can do to to increase your mpg-

Rolling resistance- check all brakes and bearings/tire inflation
Oil- high quality synthetic with Petron Plus diesel oil/metal treatment
Air filter area & cleanliness- upgrade to aftermarket/high flow/large element
Water/meth injection triggered by aftermarket boost gauge. It's not just for performance.
Intercooler- got one yet?
Boost leaks- soapy water test
Transmission fluid- Amsoil + Petron, friction reducers
Consider swapping to higher ratio rear end, manual tranny or both.
Put a pint of high quality two-stroke oil in each tank with every fill up.

Diesels, especially older ones, love HHO. A liter per min per liter of displacement for our engines is not over doing it. Go ahead and get yourself a 150-160 amp alternator, because you'll need roughly 70 amps to make all the HHO your engine can use at speed. If you build a unit that is too small to meet your demand and don't see the increases you think you should see, then you're going to be disappointed and probably end up badmouthing HHO.. And that would be a shame.

You will probably want to build a unipolar system simply for the production & efficiency gains available from that style because of your engine's large displacement.

You can also pick up a couple 12v ozone makers (ozone is O3) and mount them where their output can be drawn into the intake air. They draw very little current. The extra oxygen made available by the ozone coupled with the higher compression instituted by water injection (steam) gives a better burn and any oxygen inspired egt increase is negated by cooling effect of the water. It's a win-win scenario.

Sorry if I covered some ground that you're already familiar with, but one never knows...

[Oshawapilot]

Thanks for the pointers. You guessed close on the truck, it's a 97 C3500 with the 6.5TD. It's also a one-ton dually crew cab long box. At 21' long and pushing 8000 Pounds empty, I still get a respectable 16-17MPG.

No 02 Sensor. Exhaust is turbo-back 4" straight pipe. NO restrictions. Air filters on diesels are a hot button topic, the "K&N is better" mantra does not always apply. Water/Meth is on my radar but HHO is further up my list. No intercooler, 6.5 never had one...those who have experimented with them on the 6.5 anyways have experienced lower EGT's/IAT's as expected, but mediocre MPG effects. Boost system is top knotch, but I have my wastegate de-tuned to reduce boost levels. Contrary to popular belief, more boost does not equal more MPG - quite to the contrary, actually.

Fluids are as thin as I'm willing to go but I'm not willing to invest in synthetics for the marginal MPG increase they will provide...based on the experiences of many others with the same truck. I also use this truck for towing a heavy fifth wheel all summer long so going with taller gearing is simply not an option, nor is larger wheels or anything else that would compromise it's hauling ability.

Unlike others who own huge pickups which end up as pavement princesses, mine is actually used for it's intended purpose.

My mileage is stonewalled by the fact that, well, it's a huge truck. To be getting the mileage I'm getting is staggering in the eyes of many, but it's because of extremely careful/conservative driving using basic hypermiling techniques. Lots of others with the same models on the forum are getting 12-13 MPG with smaller versions (Non dually, non CCLB) so I'm pretty happy with 16-17 MPG. Yes, I'd love 25, but I also have to keep things in perspective.

All that said, I'm pretty confident that I can get over 20MPG with HHO, perhaps more. A few old threads there when some people were experimenting with the 6.5 and HHO in 2008 (when the last fuel price spikes occurred) reported anecdotal evidence of one guy getting nearly 25 with his 6.5TD truck of similar year.

Based on the advice here I've decided to take a pass on the smacks (wet) kit and hold out to do the dry model instead. I have yet to find a set of plans that is thorough as I'd like, however.