2 small units vs 1 large for Diesel.

[lhazleton]

Mark,
Looks like you're learning already.
We're all in here to help out. I had totally forgotten that Gus was a diesel head!
Believe it or not, he does know what he's talking about and always gives sound advice.
Man, did I just say that????????

>>Gus, yer buddy's waiting for ya in the other thread............

[BioFarmer93]

OK then.. First off, were you planning on putting the unit in the bed/box? I hope so because it's going to be fairly big compared to many of them. I can design a unit for you no problem & no charge, but I have to know what kind of amperage you are willing to commit to it so I can size the plates properly.
Here is my system, it makes roughly 8lpm @ 100 amps.

[BioFarmer93]

>>Gus, yer buddy's waiting for ya in the other thread............

Huh?!? My buddy? I thought he was your buddy!

[Oshawapilot]

Alright, now we're talking.

I found these plans online this evening - http://b2bf.com/hho-plans/

It's given me a better understanding of the building of the actual dry cell versus the wet cell design and has brought it down to a level where it doesn't seem as daunting anymore. My primary concerns now are getting the actual plates (not an issue, but cost could range from "Free" to "Arm and leg"), and finding the gasket material...although I liked the ideal in the plans above of using the heavy flexible PVC. (Does it stand up to the electrolyte?)

That's one heck of a sytem in your truck. The more I realize the size of what I'm going to be getting into, the more I realize that bed mounting is the only real viable option if I want to get +++ LPM.

I've read at a few places that anymore than .50/Lpm to the engine size (so 3.25L/Min for a 6.5L engine) is not necessarily better - I'm assuming this is not exactly the case? With your system making 10L/Min on what appears to be a pickup, I'm going to assume you're dumping all that into the engine, not just generating it for the fun of it.

As for amps...well, my alternator is a 110A, so drawing 100A constantly isn't realistic as with just the amp draw of the engine electronics and a handful of other small things and I'm depleting batteries, much less maxing the alternator.

Yes, I could go with an dual alternator setup, but I'm thinking if I could keep amp draw in the 60A range I'll be fine to stick with my single alternator which I'd prefer...at least at this point. Given those numbers is it realistic to get 6L/Min? Given simple math based on your 4 Cell system @ 100 Amps (10 amps per 10L/Min) it would seem it is.

Your thoughts on this?

[Oshawapilot]

A bit OT, but a fellow staff member at the diesel forum PM'd me tonight offered me his only slightly-used HHO generator for what he describes as "a steal".

Here's the link to the model he says he has:

http://www.alternativegassolutions.c...generator.html

I can't seem to see for sure if it's a dry or wet kit, but it LOOKS like they are dry kits. The model he specifically quotes is a "double" cell which pruports to make 5-6LPM at 25 amps. Something seems off there based on what little I've learned here already.

He bought it in 2008 and had trouble with it blowing the 30A fuse, so he eventually got ****ed off and yanked it off. Apparently it's been sitting in his garage ever since. I suspect he didn't properly mix the electrolyte resulting in the amp issues, but I'm just guessing at this point - I'm waiting for him to PM me back with details.

Thoughts on this specific system?

[BioFarmer93]

Mark,
Tell your buddy thanks, but no thanks... If that tiny thing makes 5-6 L a minute, then I wish to revise the output statement on mine from 8lpm to 45lpm...

The free plans you found there have been around for a while and are responsible for getting a lot of people into HHO. With those plans you could perhaps build a unit suitable for a diesel Rabbit or Jetta.

Something to bear in mind is the fact that small units that make "big numbers" are measuring a lot of water vapor and/or steam, not clean dry HHO. It's really very straight forward, plate area x amps up to a point- too many amps and you can overheat anything. No magic involved, but media blasting your plates really helps.

I ran two alternators at first, the stock 100A and a 150A just for the system, it was not as efficient as I initially thought it would be. I found that just using the 150A would be plenty, that's why I advised you to go that route rather than adding another one.

OK, it's late, gotta sleep, talk more tomorrow... Gus

[ultra_efficient]

when upgrading your alternator make sure to upgrade to a PMA. a PMA is a permanent magnet Alternator. it has a magnetic core already so it don't need power to make power like the conventional alternators which makes it more efficient. i have a 150amp PMA even thou i don't use more than 30amps for HHO.

[lhazleton]

Sounds like a very good idea!

[koya1893]

They're all over the place.
For diesels, Ben (Koya) is your best bet. He specializes in builds for diesel trucks.

Thanks for the confidence, but as you said Gus is a bigger diesel gerahead than I. I've scanned through the thread and picked up on Gus offering to build a cell for you. I would take that offer because you probably will not get that kind of offer and get a well built cell. I know this because he own a Benz.

Addtionally, the plans in the link you posted will run hot and consum a lot of amps, this is due to the top hole aligned, I know many have suggested to do that on the top hole thinking they are not submerged all the time. when I built a cell according to those plans, at 100 mg of NaOH per gl. the amps shot up to 30amp on this config -NNNNN+.

The cell for the system for suburban has two independent cell 3" X 11" plates 1/8 spacing configured like this -NNNNN+ and wired seperately.

YES, good idea Richard. I put one of those on my 1972 LT1 before I installed a HHO system.

Kidding aside your 6.5 is probably similar to a Suburban diesel I built a cell for 2.5lpm, last he report he is getting 21 mpg local driving. One thing you might want to look into first is how many mile your stock has on it. If it has a lot of mile the first long drive you take with a HHO system onboard it will die. so, as adviced get a new high output alt then build a system or buy one.

I also, have several F-250 and 350 with my system onboard, I am not inducing the .5 lpm to 1 liter of eng displacement. the F-350 with 7.3 turbo system in inducing a little over 2.5 lpm with 2-3 mpg increase while towing a 38 foot Fifth wheel.

It weems you've done some reading not like most of the newbies. so stay in touch here and we will assist where we can. Oh yeah, GOOD decision on staying away from the WET CELL. If you built this yourself USPlastic has a 1.5 gl. plus reservior that works great.

Gus,

My Benz was doing great (32 mpg city) until the oil cooler line decided to leak from being old. I am looking to get a new engine or do something MAD. I have a 350 and 700R4 in the garage.

[Oshawapilot]

Ok, I'm about to go get some prices on the stainless.

For a 6LPM output I'm gathering I'm looking at 2 generators, so how many plates (ultimately, how much stainless) should I be looking to buy?

As for the alternator, I'm not too worried about it - the units spec'd for the 6.5 diesels are incredibly hardy, and at the moment I have a Bosch (with lifetime warranty ) which is only about 1.5 years old. I'm comfortable drawing 60a continuous from it, and IF if let's go I'll get a free replacement anyways and will reconsider power options again at that point - either a second alternator, or a bigger upgrade.