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Thread: Electrolyte & Amperage Ratio for HHO Converter.

  1. Default Electrolyte & Amperage Ratio for HHO Converter.

    In my research I'm finding that people are using an assortment of compounds to add acid in the water for continuity. Some of these include Salt and Baking Soda..

    In all of the examples and videos that I've seen, everybody just says the amount that works for them; then they say that it is a trial and error solution.

    Does anybody know what the proper Ph balance is to draw 15 Amps?

    Is there a ratio table, or, a formula that will will show how much amperage will be drawn at certain Ph balances with a certain quantity of water?

    It seems that you can add anything acidic to the water to make the Ph balance go up? Could you also just use Ph Add solution.. Like the stuff they use for pools and fish tanks? Or maybe even lemon juice, or the acid squeezed from orange peels?

    That seems like it would be the cleanest solution. And possible less corrosive than salt? (no crystals).

  2. Default

    First off most people use KOH or NaOH as their electrolyte and these will make the water more alkaline not more acidic. Now that is not to say that adding an acid will not work, it will, it is just less efficient. There is a trade-off between corrosive and conductivity. Typically the more corrosive the better the conductivity.

    DO NOT USE BAKING SODA OR SALTS that would produce deadly chlorine gas or other unwanted byproducts.

    I have done Ph tests on KOH and NaOH solutions of mild to stong strength and they are all always a 13-14 Ph. So even if you have a low concentration drawing 5 amps or a high concentration of electrolyte drawing 100 amps the Ph is the same.

    I am not sure what is in those drops for fish tanks so I can't tell you whether there good or not.

  3. Default That clears up a lot for me.

    I understand things a bit better now..

    Especially I was confused when I saw that people were using baking soda as an electrolyte.

    I learned that acid was used to conduct electricity in water.. wasn't aware that alkaline also worked and is better.

    I sometimes use baking soda in water to counter-act acid indigestion.. lol so, I knew it was alkaline..

    It's a shame.. most of the YouTube videos say to use salt and baking soda..

    Also.. where would I get Potassium or Sodium Hydroxide.
    Last edited by fortwnty420; 04-27-2011 at 07:03 AM.

  4. Default

    Ask for Lye it is used as drain cleaner. I get NaOH at Ace Hardware for $4.60 a lb container. Be sure to get 100% Sodium Hydroxide. Lowes also has a product but it was twice as expensive.

    You can go online to get as well:
    http://www.lyedepot.com/purchase_lye/index.html

  5. Default Thanks I will check there

    A formula for Amperage.. Where V=Volts, I=Amps, R=Ohms is the resistance measured in Ohms... V=IR so, Resistance we would need to overcome with an electrolyte would be: R=V/I R=12/15=.8 Ohms (12 volts(V), 15 Amps(I).

    Do you know how many Ohms KOH & NaHo give in say a litre of water.

    According to the article, you would have to have I=12/.1=120amps for a resistance of .1 Ohms.

    He is a clip from an article I found online..

    Let's start with the simple equation V = IR. The equation can be rearranged to I = V/R. 6 volts flowing across a resistance of 2 ohms would give a current of 3 amperes. A strong solution of electrolyte will have a very low R, nowhere near a full ohm and usually much less than 1/10 of an ohm. Thus, the value of I will be very high unless one introduces some more resistance to the circuit. Keep in mind that R for a solution depends on the path length, just as it does in a wire; electrodes farther apart in the solution will allow less current to flow.

  6. Default

    A formula for Amperage.. Where V=Volts, I=Amps, R=Ohms is the resistance measured in Ohms... V=IR so, Resistance we would need to overcome with an electrolyte would be: R=V/I R=12/15=.8 Ohms (12 volts(V), 15 Amps(I).

    Do you know how many Ohms KOH & NaHo give in say a litre of water.

    According to the article, you would have to have I=12/.1=120amps for a resistance of .1 Ohms.

    He is a clip from an article I found online..

    Let's start with the simple equation V = IR. The equation can be rearranged to I = V/R. 6 volts flowing across a resistance of 2 ohms would give a current of 3 amperes. A strong solution of electrolyte will have a very low R, nowhere near a full ohm and usually much less than 1/10 of an ohm. Thus, the value of I will be very high unless one introduces some more resistance to the circuit. Keep in mind that R for a solution depends on the path length, just as it does in a wire; electrodes farther apart in the solution will allow less current to flow.
    420, just remember that electrolyte is non ohmic which means it does not follow Ohms law.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb."

    ONE Liter per minute per 10 amps which just isn't possible Ha Ha .

  7. Default Ahh I see..

    I'm getting closer though.. and learning along the way.

    How is resistance measured with an electrolyte?

  8. Default

    When you figure it out let me know. Being non ohmic it is a problem in a reactor.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb."

    ONE Liter per minute per 10 amps which just isn't possible Ha Ha .

  9. #9

    Default

    Do you know how many Ohms KOH & NaHo give in say a litre of water.
    It's not the resistance of any given amount of electrolyte that need concern you so much as the resistance of the electrolyte residing directly between the plates.

    The resistance of an electrolyte is still measured in ohms, and Ohms Law does indeed still apply. The difference between the resistance of and an electrolyte as opposed to the resistance of a metal is that, if plotted on a graph, the electrolyte result is non-linear, whereas the resistance of a metal is linear (or a straight line).

    All this means is that the resistance of an electrolyte is not a constant like that of a metal and will vary with voltage, but V/I =R still applies.

    You can easily plot a graph of the resistance of any given electrolyte/electrolyser set up by recording the current and voltage, while upping the voltage in small increments. Using V/I =R, you can then determine the resistance for each recorded voltage.

    Of course, should you change any parameters of a given electrolyser set up, for instance by altering the electrolyte concentration or altering electrode dimensions, then a new graph would need to be plotted.
    Farrah

    It's what you learn after you think you know it all that really counts!

  10. Default

    Farrah, when volts remain fixed, concentration remains fixed, but heat increases and then amps go up how does that fit into Ohms Law? Temperature has to be in there some where. The electrolyte has less resistance when it warms up.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb."

    ONE Liter per minute per 10 amps which just isn't possible Ha Ha .

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