Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 16 of 16

Thread: Electrolyte & Amperage Ratio for HHO Converter.

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,418
    By this are you saying electrolyte follows Ohms Law? I am not an electrical engineer and can not express my findings is terms that would explain what is happening here. I just know by experimentation that electrolyte is non-Ohmic. For all you technical ones follow this link. You can then debate this with like kind. LOL

    http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/v....php?tid=14718
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb."

    ONE Liter per minute per 10 amps which just isn't possible Ha Ha .

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,418
    The law is a law. And yes, the electrolyte follows this law, too, in terms of resitance. The only detail is that the resistance is not linear with voltage and temperature. It also has a capacitance (the plates) and an inductance. And at high voltage it will make plasma with negative resistance, and so on...
    If you say so. And maybe we are saying the same thing in different languages. Lets leave it at that. It is really above my pay rate!! One question? By capacitance are you referring to back EMF or if not how do you account for the back EMF.


    http://books.google.com/books?id=h-g...rolyte&f=false

    http://science.jrank.org/pages/2324/...onductors.html
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb."

    ONE Liter per minute per 10 amps which just isn't possible Ha Ha .

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    England
    Posts
    81
    Quote Originally Posted by myoldyourgold View Post
    Farrah, when volts remain fixed, concentration remains fixed, but heat increases and then amps go up how does that fit into Ohms Law? Temperature has to be in there some where. The electrolyte has less resistance when it warms up.
    Yes, temperature will alter the situation, but not from the point of Ohm's Law. So even though the voltage and electrolyte concentration have not changed, the heating effect adds energy to the system, resistance of the solution drops allowing greater current to flow. I x R will still = V. It's just that the I and R have altered, one goes up, the other comes down, while V remains the same.

    In just the same way the resistance of a copper wire changes as it heats up. But this heating up and change in resistance does not affect, or indeed invalidate Ohm's Law in any way. Hope that helps.

    Amendment:

    Didn't realise there was a page two on this thread now, so I answered MyOld's last post on page one without knowing of HHOE's responses. But he's right, it just comes down to temperature coefficients. R = V/I still applies.
    Farrah

    It's what you learn after you think you know it all that really counts!

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    England
    Posts
    81
    I should just add that Ohm's Law is not a true law as such, as there are circumstances in which it completely breaks down. But it does work well generally.

    Furthermore, I'll make an apology here and add something that I did not know or realise. That is, that an electrolyte does not follow Ohm's Law. Well you learn something every day!

    That is not to say that the expression V = I x R does not apply, but rather that the wording of Ohm's Law states that the resistance must remain constant regardless of the applied voltage or current flow. Basically then anything that shows a non-linear curve of V against I, such as an electrolyte or a semiconductor (temperature coefficeints not withstanding) is considered not to follow Ohms Law... or is said to be non-ohmic. And I have to say in all my years I'd never heard the term non-ohmic before - even though I studied semiconductor principles in the distant past.

    The main problem then with electrolyte resistance and indeed why you cannot give it a fixed figure is because it varies with voltage and current. That said, for any given values of voltage and current flow, you can determine the resistance from V/I = R. It's just that unlike a resistor which maintains its value irrelevant of current and voltage, as soon as you take the voltage off an electrolyte, the resistance changes.

    Must be getting a little complacent in my old age!
    Farrah

    It's what you learn after you think you know it all that really counts!

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,418
    I should just add that Ohm's Law is not a true law as such, as there are circumstances in which it completely breaks down. But it does work well generally.

    Furthermore, I'll make an apology here and add something that I did not know or realise. That is, that an electrolyte does not follow Ohm's Law. Well you learn something every day!

    That is not to say that the expression V = I x R does not apply, but rather that the wording of Ohm's Law states that the resistance must remain constant regardless of the applied voltage or current flow. Basically then anything that shows a non-linear curve of V against I, such as an electrolyte or a semiconductor (temperature coefficeints not withstanding) is considered not to follow Ohms Law... or is said to be non-ohmic. And I have to say in all my years I'd never heard the term non-ohmic before - even though I studied semiconductor principles in the distant past.

    The main problem then with electrolyte resistance and indeed why you cannot give it a fixed figure is because it varies with voltage and current. That said, for any given values of voltage and current flow, you can determine the resistance from V/I = R. It's just that unlike a resistor which maintains its value irrelevant of current and voltage, as soon as you take the voltage off an electrolyte, the resistance changes.

    Must be getting a little complacent in my old age!
    Farah, me being somewhat electrically challenged appreciated your post and am in 100% agreement except for the complacent and old age. We are only really old when we can no longer learn. LOL

    I went through this CURRENT ELECTRICITY LECTURE and thought other challenged ones or others who wanted to sharpen up could benefit too. The non-ohmic part starts at slide 20. All in all a good tool.

    http://www.wiziq.com/tutorial/56814-...NT-ELECTRICITY
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb."

    ONE Liter per minute per 10 amps which just isn't possible Ha Ha .

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1
    I thought I would come in here, pick up a few tried and tested designs and start saving. Ohms law is a very basic linear relationship between two variables, resistance and Voltage. The strength of current flowing between any two points in a circuit varies proportionally to the voltage and inversely proportional to the resistance. But this is just the basics. Temperature throws the equation in another perspective, you can be dealing with a positive temp' coefficient PTC(the resistance increases with temperature, such as carbon or metal ) or a negative temp' coefficient NTC(resistance decreases with temp such as semiconductors). I'm new to this HHO stuff, but I presume that electrolytes are NTC, as a hotter electrolyte will draw more current. Control of current is easy through electronics (such as IGFETS). But I believe that we need to get into the habit of metering tests and compositions so as to promote a synergistic effect between members. It seems to me as if designs are determined by pot luck.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •