What wrong with my reactor :-(

[myoldyourgold]

Chemical formula for calculating concentration

mass of solute / mass of solution* x 100

* Mass solute + solvent

You are right Sir. I guess I had a senior moment at least that is what Lee would have said. LOL Not really I thought this would get every body stirred up and get more people to say I was wrong!! Wrong statements can be a good learning tool. If you had not corrected it I would have been forced to do it. D.O.G. and you get an A+ grade. LOL

Keep us informed on your progress. Your problem has to be a simple one.

[Quebecker]

Hi M. Carter,

Still me and my questions :-)

If the passivation cleans the plates of all impurities, passivation don't may interfere with the adhesion of the Weld-on 16 ?

Would not it be better to apply the insulation (weld-on 16) after passivation ?




Since I am not able to take the citric acid at high temperature, how long do I have to bath my plates if the solution is at a room temperature (± 23 °C) ? Some subjects talk about 2 hrs, others of 24 hrs. I am confused and I try to be the best way


Thanks in advance

[nst6563]

The passivation MAY interfere with the weldon adhesion. I've had mixed results doing the weldon before and after passivation. As long as the plates are thoroughly clean before passivation, the weldon sticks good. I've had some plates where the weldon came lose after the 150f citric acid bath so I've had to re-do the weldon. Not all plates have had the weldon fail in the acid bath however, only just a few - maybe 4 out of 36 of my plates have done that.

In both cases, the weldon sticks good as long as the plates are blasted in that area.

If you're not able to passivate the plates at the elevated temperature then soaking for 2 hours at 70-77f should also do the trick. The longer it soaks, the more the acid eats away - and the acid doesn't only dissolve the iron.

Here are some industry documents regarding passivation processes.
http://www.mediafire.com/?bm1jwwwd5z5ht
At the very least I recommend reading the one labeled AAA passivation methods as it provides the most detailed information as well as some illustrations of tests using salt sprays (standard passivation test is to expose a stainless steel part to a salt spray for a period of 2-3 hours and then clean.). The Aerospace document is from Beoing in St. Louis MO and includes a comparison of Nitric vs Citric acid passivations and their effects on different grades of stainless steel.

[myoldyourgold]

I use the 2 hour at room temperature process. I too have tried it both ways as far as when to put the Weld-on 16 on. Even though I have not had any come loose after the first couple of tries I have had some leakage from burst bubbles. I am not sure that I have solved this problem but this is the process I use now and only long term testing will confirm it or not.

I put the Weld-on after cleaning* the plates really well and using acetone in the area just before I put the Weld-on on. I then let things dry for at least 24 hours and put another coat on using acetone on the area being coated before putting on the Weld-on and then wait another 24 hours. I then examine them carefully and find a few that need a third coat. During this time the Passivation process which is a natural process has start as soon as the media blasting is done. So by the time you get the Weld-on on it has already started. The citric acid will remove the already started passivation and other unwanted metals except in the area where the Weld-on is. You then allow the oxygen to start the passivation process again. Now after all of this and since I fill in the whole port completely, I half to cut out the port leaving an edge around the port with a rotary tool and file. I then put one more layer of Weld-on using acetone on the already dry Weld-on just before I put the final layer on. This covers any holes which are a result of bubbles bursting during the Citric acid bath, drying process and cutting out the port. Now after another 24 hours it is ready for final cleaning and assembly.

*The cleaning process includes a wipe down of the total plate with acetone after washing down with a mild NaOH solution and never touching the plates again with your bare hands. Do not forget to finally rinse things very well with distilled water.

[Quebecker]

The insulation will prevent current leakage around the edges of the holes and thus cause the current to pass through the rest of the plate area (which is what we want).

Hi

The use of the gasket as insulation can be acceptable to you ?

SOmething like this


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[myoldyourgold]

This has been tried before and does not work. Even a small burst bubble in the Weld-on causes leakage. Once it starts, it turns into a supper highway for leakage. Stick to Weld-on. The gasket only covers the surface not the inside edge and of course it has a little channel so it is of no real use.

[Quebecker]

UPDATE ABOUT MY PROBLEM

Tomorrow, I reassembled my improved reactor....

Today, during my lunch time, I replaced my electrolyte solution with a new fresh one (20% Caustic Acid -> NaOH).

I start my reactor and always the same "damned" problem
Discouraged, I make a test. I reversed the configuration from -NNNNNN+NNNNNN- to +NNNNNN-NNNNNN+ and ....

Wow, Hho gas production has become regular.
Why ? I don't know



Unfortunately, my HHO gas production is therefore limited to about 0.5LPM (3.57MMW). At 14 volts, the current rating can not exceed 10 amps and I do not know why ? My electrolyte is 20% NaOH with distilled water (distilled by steam and come from drugstore)


I check the voltage between each plate and it's always aprox. 1.98v for each one. No shortage

Your opinion ?


Despite my disappointment, however, there is a positive thing. At the purchase, the reactor produced initially 1.43MMW and post your valuable advice, I have improved so that it produces the 3.57MMW


Thanks

[nst6563]

I looked back through the thread and couldn't find it but what type of power supply are you using?

Battery + charger, charger, dedicated lab-type power supply, etc.

I've had different experiences with different power supplies. With the standard 'dumb' battery charger producing the worst results by itself. Using the 'dumb' charger + battery works better. Even better than that was the use of a 'smart' microprocessor controlled charger + battery.

I don't have the lab-grade power supply available unfortunately.

[Quebecker]

I looked back through the thread and couldn't find it but what type of power supply are you using?

Battery + charger, charger, dedicated lab-type power supply, etc.

I've had different experiences with different power supplies. With the standard 'dumb' battery charger producing the worst results by itself. Using the 'dumb' charger + battery works better. Even better than that was the use of a 'smart' microprocessor controlled charger + battery.

I don't have the lab-grade power supply available unfortunately.

Direct connect to my battery car

[nst6563]

Is the engine running or not during the tests?

I've run into the 10A max before but that was with my 'dumb' charger. Switching to battery + smart charger overcame that (without swapping electrolyte).

If not, I'd try it with the engine running. If it is, I'll have to leave a possible explanation up to someone with more experience.