BioBeast Progress...

[BioFarmer93]

Well,
There is some weirdness going on with the 'beast.. Plumbing and electrical- from the plumbing end of things, I think I'm just going to trash the dual reservoir idea and route everything into one as the balance of electrolyte in one reservoir or the other seems to unduly affect the flow into the bubblers. Everything was taken apart and checked- no trash was ever located. I was relieved when that was the case because I had exercised OCD-like meticulousness with the cleanliness of the build and would have really started to doubt my worthiness as a builder had it been otherwise.
The electrical weirdness was discovered by accident when I was skipping the last group during a power up. I’d power the first six groups only starting from the left, then I would switch jumper cable locations and only power six groups starting from the right. I would use my multimeter to measure voltages across different groups and sets of groups looking for differences in voltage. The voltage coming off of my batteries from my running engine was clamped at 12.7V exactly as it should be, measured at the gator jaws of the unconnected cables. Each group pulled between 2.1V – 2.3V, and running only 6 out of seven groups showed 12.7V on the meter. The 7th group was still connected, but I was skipping it by supplying power starting at the 6th group. When I got a wild hare and measured all the way across at the main electrical connections, I got a surprise. I was expecting to see 12.7 again, but no, I got 13.4V! I immediately measured at the jaws again thinking that my alternators output had suddenly gone up- nope… I pulled the jumper cables off and measured them no-load – 12.7V. Walked out to the truck and measured at the batts- 12.7V. Came back in and hooked back up, 13.4V from end to end, one group beyond where all rationality is telling me the circuit ends.. Swapped ends for the orphan group- same deal, 13.4 and 12.7 IN the circuit.. swapped polarities, same thing. Swapped orphans with swapped polarities, same thing.

Anyone have any theories on this? Come on Nick, I know you secretly read here.. Larry? You’ve been too quiet too long.. Shane? Carter? Lee? Lurkers?

[myoldyourgold]

OH shoot!! Gus if you had told me this day before yesterday I might have been able to help or confuse the issue more. I tore down the three running reactors on my work bench yesterday for a major data collection where one has been running since 2008 almost continuously with just small down times for electrolyte changes. It will be a week or so before I will have one back together and will test to see if I see the same thing and or try and figure it out either way.

With the reservoir problem it is similar to the splitter reservoir problem and the only way to solve it other than going to one is to put a balancing hose between them at the bottom equalizing pressure. This of course is the same as one reservoir as far as any possible current leakage but you would get the benefit of the extra volume of electrolyte. The reason for the differences is current density on some electrodes is more than others.
This can be caused by slight differences in surface materials on the electrodes, distance/compression of gaskets, and how even the
conditioning process effected the surface.

I will give this some more though and see if I can get others to give us some feedback.

[iger13]

Plumbing and electrical- from the plumbing end of things, I think I'm just going to trash the dual reservoir idea and route everything into one as the balance of electrolyte in one reservoir or the other seems to unduly affect the flow into the bubblers.

I have same problem on this one.
Maybe will try myold advise. About the reason for voltage difference, I don't know (yet)but the same weired thing happens when you measure 3 groups.

[myoldyourgold]

Maybe will try myold advise. About the reason for voltage difference, I don't know (yet)but the same wired thing happens when you measure 3 groups.

What I mentioned has nothing to do with the voltage being different when measuring with different groups connected. It has to do with slight variations that cause more or less gas to be created from on sell to the next and thus creates a imbalance and of course the gas takes the path of least resistance. I still have to investigate the other phenomenon when groups are left off etc. Is there any negative readings on your meters when checking? In other words are the polarities as you think they should be?

Oh ya, great looking build. Nicely done!!

[19TERCEL96]

Well,
The electrical weirdness was discovered by accident when I was skipping the last group during a power up. I’d power the first six groups only starting from the left, then I would switch jumper cable locations and only power six groups starting from the right. I would use my multimeter to measure voltages across different groups and sets of groups looking for differences in voltage. The voltage coming off of my batteries from my running engine was clamped at 12.7V exactly as it should be, measured at the gator jaws of the unconnected cables. Each group pulled between 2.1V – 2.3V, and running only 6 out of seven groups showed 12.7V on the meter. The 7th group was still connected, but I was skipping it by supplying power starting at the 6th group. When I got a wild hare and measured all the way across at the main electrical connections, I got a surprise. I was expecting to see 12.7 again, but no, I got 13.4V! I immediately measured at the jaws again thinking that my alternators output had suddenly gone up- nope… I pulled the jumper cables off and measured them no-load – 12.7V. Walked out to the truck and measured at the batts- 12.7V. Came back in and hooked back up, 13.4V from end to end, one group beyond where all rationality is telling me the circuit ends.. Swapped ends for the orphan group- same deal, 13.4 and 12.7 IN the circuit.. swapped polarities, same thing. Swapped orphans with swapped polarities, same thing.

Anyone have any theories on this? Come on Nick, I know you secretly read here.. Larry? You’ve been too quiet too long.. Shane? Carter? Lee? Lurkers?

What happens to your voltage and current readings when you connect the seventh stack?

[iger13]

What I mentioned has nothing to do with the voltage

I mean advice about the balance of electrolyte in two reservoirs. [/QUOTE]Is there any negative readings on your meters when checking? In other words are the polarities as you think they should be?[/QUOTE]
Yes,the reading,I think,is negative.

[myoldyourgold]

Igor, How many plates do you have in each group?

While the reactor is running do these voltage checks.

Starting with plate 1 in group 1 and the last plate in group 1, what voltage do you read? Now move the probe from plate one to the first plate in group 2 what voltage do you read?

First plate in group 1 and the last plate in group 6 what voltage do you read?

First plate in group 1 and the last plate in group 3 what voltage do you read?

I will start with this and after getting this much information maybe be able to help.

[myoldyourgold]

Well,
There is some weirdness going on with the 'beast.. Plumbing and electrical- from the plumbing end of things, I think I'm just going to trash the dual reservoir idea and route everything into one as the balance of electrolyte in one reservoir or the other seems to unduly affect the flow into the bubblers. Everything was taken apart and checked- no trash was ever located. I was relieved when that was the case because I had exercised OCD-like meticulousness with the cleanliness of the build and would have really started to doubt my worthiness as a builder had it been otherwise.
The electrical weirdness was discovered by accident when I was skipping the last group during a power up. I’d power the first six groups only starting from the left, then I would switch jumper cable locations and only power six groups starting from the right. I would use my multimeter to measure voltages across different groups and sets of groups looking for differences in voltage. The voltage coming off of my batteries from my running engine was clamped at 12.7V exactly as it should be, measured at the gator jaws of the unconnected cables. Each group pulled between 2.1V – 2.3V, and running only 6 out of seven groups showed 12.7V on the meter. The 7th group was still connected, but I was skipping it by supplying power starting at the 6th group. When I got a wild hare and measured all the way across at the main electrical connections, I got a surprise. I was expecting to see 12.7 again, but no, I got 13.4V! I immediately measured at the jaws again thinking that my alternators output had suddenly gone up- nope… I pulled the jumper cables off and measured them no-load – 12.7V. Walked out to the truck and measured at the batts- 12.7V. Came back in and hooked back up, 13.4V from end to end, one group beyond where all rationality is telling me the circuit ends.. Swapped ends for the orphan group- same deal, 13.4 and 12.7 IN the circuit.. swapped polarities, same thing. Swapped orphans with swapped polarities, same thing.

Anyone have any theories on this? Come on Nick, I know you secretly read here.. Larry? You’ve been too quiet too long.. Shane? Carter? Lee? Lurkers?

Gus, do one test for me. When all groups are hooked up measure the voltage from the first plate of group 7 to the last plate in group 7. Thanks

[iger13]

Igor, How many plates do you have in each group?

While the reactor is running do these voltage checks.

Starting with plate 1 in group 1 and the last plate in group 1, what voltage do you read? Now move the probe from plate one to the first plate in group 2 what voltage do you read?

First plate in group 1 and the last plate in group 6 what voltage do you read?

First plate in group 1 and the last plate in group 3 what voltage do you read?

I will start with this and after getting this much information maybe be able to help.

Here is the numbers for 3 group unit,5 plates in group:
1 group-1.9V
2 groups-2.4V
3 groups-6V.
So the mystery is, if I understand Gus correctly, where in his unit of 7 groups extra voltage came from, and in my unit with 3 groups where voltage disappear.
When I turn unit off I get :
1 group 1.25V
2 groups 2.4V
3 groups 3.3V

[myoldyourgold]

Igor Sir, I sent you a PM.