Police Interceptors

[228Robinson]

Hello,

I've been tasked with finding ways to decrease my department's spending. I heard about HHO through a buddy and was curious to know whether anyone had installed this technology on a police interceptor. Specifically, for our 2001-2003 P71 Crown Vics. Our ECUs are programmed somewhat differently from stock to deal with the interceptor package and I don't know whether that would be an issue.

If anyone has specific information regarding a kit and whether it would work with our interceptors, it would be greatly appreciated.

[myoldyourgold]

I've been tasked with finding ways to decrease my department's spending. I heard about HHO through a buddy and was curious to know whether anyone had installed this technology on a police interceptor. Specifically, for our 2001-2003 P71 Crown Vics. Our ECUs are programmed somewhat differently from stock to deal with the interceptor package and I don't know whether that would be an issue.

If anyone has specific information regarding a kit and whether it would work with our interceptors, it would be greatly appreciated.

What state are you in? It is possible. The interceptor programing does make it a little different but still doable.

[nst6563]

1 way to find out

If they're willing to subject one as a test vehicle then why not work towards it.

If you succeed with a proof of concept - they may be willing to go forward with it, and then also get the ECU's adjusted.

I do see a couple issues though. The first being maintenance. Just like oil and washer fluid, it must be checked and maintained as well - probably the same interval as every other tankful of gas (just guessing).

Second would be funding. To fund a proof of concept, they'll want hard data of actual improvements on other vehicles. Then to proceed past the proof of concept will require more funding - which as you can guess will be directly proportional to how well the proof of concept performs. If the cost of retrofitting the concept vehicle including ECU adjustments pays for itself in a years worth of gas - there may be a chance. The newer the cruisers are, the better the chances. If the cruisers are going to be retired soon, they'll likely not approve funding for it.

3rd downfall - If the concept does do extremely well, surpasses expectations, and funding is approved and the fleet retrofitted and money is saved...most likely the only thing you'll get is a coffee mug with a handle made of old cuffs and your name written on the side with permanent marker


It really all boils down to politics and dollar signs

[228Robinson]

To be clear, our department can't really do 'funding', per se. Our yearly budget hasn't increased since 2008. I work for a very small department; our fleet consists of 8 cars and a D.A.R.E. trailer. Thus the 2001-2003 range... they're all hand-me-downs from IMPD.

And as I'm the one in charge of finding new ways to save long-term money, it will probably be my car that gets experimented upon.

It's either find a way to save gas, or we're trading in one of the cruisers for bicycles. I do not want this.

[myoldyourgold]

Are you going to do the install and tuning yourself? Again what state are you in?

[nst6563]

Sounds like you don't have much upper end political crap to deal with then. That opens the floodgates for options

IMPD ---That's Indy Metro right? What outlying area are you in? I have a buddy up there that may have an interest in helping, he hasn't built his own reactor yet (waiting for me to blow myself up so he can learn from my mistakes haha) but does all his own vehicle work and is interested in the concept.

Do you have any equipment for HHO already? Were you going to build the cell yourself or purchase one pre-made?

[228Robinson]

It'll be me doing the installation and maintenance on this little endeavor. I am in Indiana, yes. I went ahead and ordered a kit from mileageshop.com simply because they have a lifetime warranty and, chances are, it's going to see enough use to warrant replacement. They claim that there's no need to use any ECU chips or any of that stuff, so perhaps I can get this to work with less time spent under the dash in 98 degree weather. $300 I can live with.

[lhazleton]

Good luck with this one. I just looked at their website & things don't add up.
First off, the 1 liter bottle used looks as if the bottom has been cut off, making it less than a liter. Did you notice all of the "smoke" coming out of the pipe? That's a buttload of water vapor that's carrying KOH particles. The 'hydrogen filter' is merely a small tank that does nothing more than return some of the electrolyte to the reactor. If this unit was properly engineered, there wouldn't be any vapor to begin with. 3 LPM of HHO @ 15-20 amps is impossible. Unfortunately, it's a steam machine. They also don't mention that you'll need an EFIE to control the O2 sensor signals.
The plates are cross-sanded. For real performance, media blasting is necessary instead.
They will also sell you 5 ounces of KOH for $10(on sale). I buy 10 pounds for $50 including shipping costs. The reason they claim there is no need for a PWM is simply because the reactor most likely has only 2 or 3 neutral plates per stack and runs a very mild KOH solution. Being in Indiana, what do you suppose is going to happen when the winter temps. drop? The electrolyte will freeze, destroying everything.
This kit doesn't come with, or even mention the need for at least one bubbler/scrubber. Guess what happens when just a small amount of the vapor produced hits aluminum like your throttle body, MAF, etc.?
I've contacted them with some simple questions & am waiting to see their reply.

[lhazleton]

Found one of the pictures of what happens when there's just a small trace of KOH in the Hydroxy entering the engine.

[228Robinson]

Good luck with this one. I just looked at their website & things don't add up.
First off, the 1 liter bottle used looks as if the bottom has been cut off, making it less than a liter. Did you notice all of the "smoke" coming out of the pipe? That's a buttload of water vapor that's carrying KOH particles. The 'hydrogen filter' is merely a small tank that does nothing more than return some of the electrolyte to the reactor. If this unit was properly engineered, there wouldn't be any vapor to begin with. 3 LPM of HHO @ 15-20 amps is impossible. Unfortunately, it's a steam machine. They also don't mention that you'll need an EFIE to control the O2 sensor signals.
The plates are cross-sanded. For real performance, media blasting is necessary instead.
They will also sell you 5 ounces of KOH for $10(on sale). I buy 10 pounds for $50 including shipping costs. The reason they claim there is no need for a PWM is simply because the reactor most likely has only 2 or 3 neutral plates per stack and runs a very mild KOH solution. Being in Indiana, what do you suppose is going to happen when the winter temps. drop? The electrolyte will freeze, destroying everything.
This kit doesn't come with, or even mention the need for at least one bubbler/scrubber. Guess what happens when just a small amount of the vapor produced hits aluminum like your throttle body, MAF, etc.?
I've contacted them with some simple questions & am waiting to see their reply.

Just got off the phone with one of their service reps. (Only took about 20 seconds once I was transferred.) According to their warranty, any damage to the HHO system that's a result of manufacturing/design defect is paid by them. He said they also replace the plates if or when they stop producing hydrogen. He also stated that KOH was a lifetime supply that we could reorder whenever we ran out, free of charge. When I asked about winter temps, I was told that there were instructions in the manual about adding alcohol to keep things functioning down to -10. He also said that if the tank cracked or broke because of temps, that was also covered under the warranty. As for the EFIE, he stated that it wasn't necessary when the ECU is rebooted and calibrated with the HHO running. We'll see.

When I informed him that the system was to be installed on an interceptor, he offered to mail a packet on police vehicle installations. He then offered to refund all but shipping costs if I forwarded a PO so he could write it off as a sample unit.

Once I get the unit, I'll install it and update this thread with the results in case other departments get the same idea.

Correction: He said the electrolytes were lifetime supply, not the KOH. Still new to this. Where do you get yours for cheap?

Correction #2: Now I find out that KOH is electrolyte. I feel special.