PM from J oops

[j oops]

Ok, I sent you (Gus) the Two Power Point Presentations. After reading some more I read where you said that wider plates has proven better for gas production. The last email with the wider system what do you think?
Also more questions:


1. Maintenance:
a. How often does a person need to take apart the generator and clean it.
b. What does all the cleaning entail? Sand blasting the plates again or just wiping them down.
c. How long would I need to go before doing a complet drain/flush of the Electrolyte and replace with fresh Electrolyte.
d. What is the best fluid to use in the bubbler (remember I live in Alaska) and how often should I drain it.
e. Gaskets, can I reuse them or install new every time. There pretty exspensive.

2. Should I use a dryer? And what dryer would you recommend, a lot of different types out there.

I would think basing the maintenance off of miles would be a bad idea. Probably need to install a hour meter after the relay.

[koya1893]

Slam on the brakes chief! The divider plates split the volts not the amps, so that bad boy will be running 12v between each plate. I use 7 groups to split 13.6v in to 1.94v per group. In the first attached drawing is a 4 group reactor (my first one), it still shows standalone groups, so ignore that- the thing to pay attention to is the way the electrical connections are arranged. That and that alone, is what makes it unipolar. The second drawing shows how it is going together this time- except I'm showing two extra plates per group that aren't going to be there, but I am showing the path the e-lyte and gas take between groups to maintain a pos and a neg reservoir.

thank you my friend. Changing crew "Hot Pump", I got educated by one of the "AT" flying with me. I get it now, the plates the whole voltage arrangement.

[myoldyourgold]

Here is a simple explanation (no such thing) of how the unipolar works. In a bipolar setup like this: -nnnnnn+nnnnnn- you have 3 power plates and 6 n's 7 pairs/cells in each of the 2 stacks. Voltage is split by 7 (7 pairs /cells) and amps are split by 2 (2 stacks). Now in a bipolar setup with 4 power plates the amps would be split by 3 and so on as you add more stacks and power plates in series.

The unipolar has no neutrals and only power plates in series.

Example:| +-+-+ | -+-+- | +-+-+ | -+-+- | +-+-+ | -+-+- | +-+-+ | Each of the groups in this example has 5 power plates and splits the amps by 4 and the groups being in series split the voltage by the number of groups 7 in this example. The groups in a unipolar have the same function as pairs/cells in a bipolar stack as far as splitting voltage and the power plates have the same function as far as splitting amps in both a bipolar and unipolar setup. If you have 14 Volts feeding the reactor in this example there will be 2 volts per pair/cell and if you have 20 amps feeding the reactor in this example you will have 5 amps per pair.

5 power plates in a group splits amps by 4. Easy way to remember this is it splits the amps by one less than the number of power plates or by the number of pairs/cells in one group.

Pairs/cells in a bipolar setup and groups in a unipolar setup split the voltage in the same way but you need to remember that the split is by pair/cell so 7 cells (6 n's) splits voltage by 7 in a bipolar and 7 groups split voltage by 7 in a unipolar. Simple way to remember the voltage split in a bipolar setup, is it splits one more than the number of n's. A unipolar splits voltage by the number of groups.

Now if I have not totally confused you then it is your own fault! LOL

[BioFarmer93]

Here is a simple explanation (no such thing) of how the unipolar works. In a bipolar setup like this: -nnnnnn+nnnnnn- you have 3 power plates and 6 n's 7 pairs/cells in each of the 2 stacks. Voltage is split by 7 (7 pairs /cells) and amps are split by 2 (2 stacks). Now in a bipolar setup with 4 power plates the amps would be split by 3 and so on as you add more stacks and power plates in series.

The unipolar has no neutrals and only power plates in series.

Example:| +-+-+ | -+-+- | +-+-+ | -+-+- | +-+-+ | -+-+- | +-+-+ | Each of the groups in this example has 5 power plates and splits the amps by 4 and the groups being in series split the voltage by the number of groups 7 in this example. The groups in a unipolar have the same function as pairs/cells in a bipolar stack as far as splitting voltage and the power plates have the same function as far as splitting amps in both a bipolar and unipolar setup. If you have 14 Volts feeding the reactor in this example there will be 2 volts per pair/cell and if you have 20 amps feeding the reactor in this example you will have 5 amps per pair.

5 power plates in a group splits amps by 4. Easy way to remember this is it splits the amps by one less than the number of power plates or by the number of pairs/cells in one group.

Pairs/cells in a bipolar setup and groups in a unipolar setup split the voltage in the same way but you need to remember that the split is by pair/cell so 7 cells (6 n's) splits voltage by 7 in a bipolar and 7 groups split voltage by 7 in a unipolar. Simple way to remember the voltage split in a bipolar setup, is it splits one more than the number of n's. A unipolar splits voltage by the number of groups.

Now if I have not totally confused you then it is your own fault! LOL

Carter- for you my friend!

[myoldyourgold]

LMAO !!! Now if he didn't have so much hair on the top of his head the likeness would more realistic. LOL

[H2OPWR]

J OOPS, I don't get here very often but here is my 2 cents worth. My last reactor was huge and I was never able to explore its upper limits because my power supply would not supply all the power it wanted. It is hard to explain but I will try. It was actually 2 seperate reactors hoohed together. Each half had 7 sections. Each section had 14 plates that only measured 2"X4". Each section had a total active area of 104 sq inches. Each half had 1456 sq inches reactive plate surface for a total of 2912 for the entire reactor. I ran out of power at 10 LPM and started blowing breakers in my house. I could unhook half of it and still get an easy 10 LPM from total of 1456 Sq Inches surface area with no heat build up. In fact I went far enough as to insulate the entire reactor trying to make it warm up some. I guess I am trying to answer your question as far as size. If I could make 10 LPM with 1456 sq inches reactive syrface area then you can get 6 LPM from around 1000 total sq inches with ease. You might want to upsize that some as I was only running at 13.1 to 13.3 volts. I was never able to approach 2 volts per section without blowing a breaker. An automotive system will make from 13.8 to 14 volts. My reactor would have run away with itself at high KOH concentrations at that voltage.

One thing you will need to pay extra close attention to will be plate prep. If you don't media blast your plates then my best guess would be to triple the size and expect lower effeciency. If you do media blast your plates then passivate them very well before you fire it up. You will need to get that Chromium Oxide layer built back up because you blasted it off. A very thin layer will automatically form due to exposure to the air but it needs to be thicker. I wish the thread was still up but it went down with Nicksrealm. There was alot of good ideas there from the many that contributed ideas to that build.

I will try and hang around here more as soon as time permits. Summer in Alaska is very busy for me. I will be doing the rebuild this winter.

Larry

[j oops]

Thanks for the info H2OPWR. I have a few people here who have been helping me understand these systems. Its down to the finer details that I'm going to have questions. I'm currently looking for some stainless steel that is thin enough for the generator. All I'm finding so far is 1/4 inch thick. Also looking for some HDPE that is 1" thick, that one is going to be hard to find where I'm at.
I will definitley be looking you up when I get home on R&R around Christmas. Curious as to how you keep everything from freezing in the winters.

[H2OPWR]

Thanks for the info H2OPWR. I have a few people here who have been helping me understand these systems. Its down to the finer details that I'm going to have questions. I'm currently looking for some stainless steel that is thin enough for the generator. All I'm finding so far is 1/4 inch thick. Also looking for some HDPE that is 1" thick, that one is going to be hard to find where I'm at.
I will definitley be looking you up when I get home on R&R around Christmas. Curious as to how you keep everything from freezing in the winters.

28% KOH will not freeze. When I was running one on my truck I filled the bubbler with 75% water and 25% Aclohol. It did not freeze either.

Larry

[koya1893]

J OOPS, I don't get here very often but here is my 2 cents worth. My last reactor was huge and I was never able to explore its upper limits because my power supply would not supply all the power it wanted. It is hard to explain but I will try. It was actually 2 seperate reactors hoohed together. Each half had 7 sections. Each section had 14 plates that only measured 2"X4". Each section had a total active area of 104 sq inches. Each half had 1456 sq inches reactive plate surface for a total of 2912 for the entire reactor. I ran out of power at 10 LPM and started blowing breakers in my house. I could unhook half of it and still get an easy 10 LPM from total of 1456 Sq Inches surface area with no heat build up. In fact I went far enough as to insulate the entire reactor trying to make it warm up some. I guess I am trying to answer your question as far as size. If I could make 10 LPM with 1456 sq inches reactive syrface area then you can get 6 LPM from around 1000 total sq inches with ease. You might want to upsize that some as I was only running at 13.1 to 13.3 volts. I was never able to approach 2 volts per section without blowing a breaker. An automotive system will make from 13.8 to 14 volts. My reactor would have run away with itself at high KOH concentrations at that voltage.

One thing you will need to pay extra close attention to will be plate prep. If you don't media blast your plates then my best guess would be to triple the size and expect lower effeciency. If you do media blast your plates then passivate them very well before you fire it up. You will need to get that Chromium Oxide layer built back up because you blasted it off. A very thin layer will automatically form due to exposure to the air but it needs to be thicker. I wish the thread was still up but it went down with Nicksrealm. There was alot of good ideas there from the many that contributed ideas to that build.

I will try and hang around here more as soon as time permits. Summer in Alaska is very busy for me. I will be doing the rebuild this winter.

Larry

The only thing I can add to this while "Master" Larry is talking: is seat down and listen. Nice to read more of your insight larry.

Carte,

Since the "AT" Avionics Technician, gave me some electrical lesson. I got what Gus was trying to learn this "Olde Chief". Lots of flying this week and flight test. Hence I will not tinker for awhile, I will pop in now and then.

[j oops]

Gus just emailed me the drawings for my generator. Thanks Gus.

I really appreciate what you and alot of the guys on this website have done to help out people with their setups and all the money you have burned up finding the best setup.

To get extra fuel mileage and have a cleaner burning vehicle that will also be better for the enviroment is good.

I've got 10 months before this deployment is over. I think I can get the plates made over here. I can order the gaskets made from a place in Florida.
The HDPE, I will have to order and can do those here as well. The rest I will make when I get back to Alaska when I'm done with this deployment.

Thanks everyone for the all the help so far.