PM from J oops

[BioFarmer93]

Been reading alot on the HHO the last couple of weeks. Read about it orignally 3 years ago and was not impressed. I'm currently very impressed.
Currently what I drive and plan on installing the HHO generator on is a 2001 Dodge diesel 4x4.
I believe I need around 6 to 7 lpm of HHO.
I think your unipolar set up sounds the most logical. Was courious what vehicle your set up is on.
Also how is your unipolar set working and how much LPM are you getting out of it?
I've followed your build thread on it and was curious if your finished with it completly or are still having to do some modifying on it?
I'm very mechanical knowledgable and have strong understanding of vehicle electrical systems and some medium knowledge of electronics.
Thanks. Any help would be very much appreciated.

Hey J oops,
Welcome to the forum, and thank you for your service. You are unable to receive personal messages so I'm responding in the forum.

My systems feeds a 1989 International Navistar 7.3L idi non-turbo diesel that Ford used between mid '88 to mid '94 in F-250 & F-350 trucks. I also run water/alcohol injection from a homemade system.
For that Cummins of yours you'll probably want about 6lpm which will pull ~75A. There is some debate over diesels and much HHO to use. Some insist that it is the same rule of thumb as gas cars- 1/2lpm per liter of displacement. I disagree, I feel that 1lpm per liter of displacement is just a starting point. This may not be the case for modern electronic diesels, but for old idi's with no sensors, it's great. For high gas output I recommend a unipolar build because it makes more gas for less amps. More plastic, drilling, tapping, fittings and hose is needed but you end up with a much higher efficiency reactor.
Mine has been finished, installed, enjoyed, uninstalled and is nearly finished being rebuilt at significantly less than half of its original plate count, going from 84 to 35 plates. The first time around I slaved a pulley to my power steering pulley to run an extra 150A dedicated system alternator. I only saw a 3.5mpg gain and attribute some of that to extra drag on the engine, and some of it to all the damn leaks I had in hose connections. Word to the wise- don't go cheap on hose clamps... The Output was never measured because of the leaks and the fact that I never got around to building a eudiometer. Well, I've learned a lot since then, mostly about plate prep and current density (not to mention hose clamps) and have an eudiometer sitting in the shop just waiting to be used. There will be no bench testing, only installed testing running from the alt at 2000rpm.
Your electronics knowledge will serve you well should it become necessary to mod your ecu- but you can install a controller can't you? Your 2001 is an electronic 12 valve, right? Anyway, you will probably want to go up on your alternator output, I'd say 150-170A ought to do you good enough unless your running a butt load of lights and a big sound system too.

Take care, Keep your eyes and ears open and your head down and ask as many questions as you like... Gus

[j oops]

Oops about the PM thing. Realized after, that I had my setting set wrong and corrected them.
My dodge is a 24v Cummins. I've had to all ready make some electronic changes to my truck as it is. Dodge never did to great when it came to their ECU.
Would you have a drawing of how you redid your plate set up? What was the reason for reducing the amount of plates? I have studied your original design, to me it seems simple enough.
What plate size would you recommend for a 6lpm to 7lpm generator? And since you had to reduce the amount of plates you were using how many plates would you reccomend for me to use?
Thanks for your help.

[j oops]

Let me rephrase one of those questions. How many square inches would you reccomend for the 6 to 7lpm.
Myyouroldgold stated about 15 to 20 square inches, calculated only 1 side of the plate. Is this what you would recommend also? That seems kinda small.

You stated in your post earlier that you had to go smaller. I'm assuming that is because you were making more LPM then expected?

What do you recomend. Thanks.

[BioFarmer93]

I'm pretty sure Myoldyourgold meant 15 to 20 sq. inches per plate.
OK, so we're going to work this out..
MENTORS - do you agree with this method?-
We need 6.5 lpm, I estimate ~13A per liter- so, 6.5x13=84.5(A)x1/4sq. in. per amp. So, 84.5x4=338sq. in. total for one side of plates. Reactor consists of 7 groups, so 338/7=48.285, which I am rounding up to 50 for ease of calculation. 5 plates will circulate better than 10 plates, so I'm going with 5 plates per group @ 10sq. in. per plate. We learned from Larry that slots work better than holes, and wider is better than taller, so disregarding the area for slots at top and bottom, I get a working area of 2.875" vertical x 3.5" horizontal.
Now we add back in the top & bottom slots @ .125 each to get 3.125" vertical, and add 1.0" to each dimension for the gasket to arrive at a final dimension of 4.5" horizontal x 4.125" vertical.
Does this impress anyone besides me as being a little on the small side? Can you imagine how small it would be if I calculated it for .5A per sq. in.?

J oops, I'm working on a drawing for you but it's going to be a day or two before I can finish it because I have to get outside and work on a retaining wall now. If I'm not too tired this evening I'll take a couple of photos up close on my divider plates so you can see how the function is accomplished.

[BioFarmer93]

I've been calculating bipolar stuff for folks and I overlooked something important about unipolar reactors that I have bowed to peer pressure about, but will no longer. Double the area. I'm working on the drawing this evening and will include the revised sizes.

[lhazleton]

You go, Gus! Check your PM...................

[j oops]

Thanks Gus.
I'm following all the math and I understand. But I was surprised at the 13A per Liter and the size of the plates. The unipolar is definitly way better.

The only thing that sucks is how much space the HDPE plates take up.

I've been doing alot of reading on this site and I've noticed their appears to only be around 4 people who are sharing there info. I don't know if this is because nobody else is expermenting or nobody else want to share.

Or is their nobody else who have built these unipolar setups?

[g.avinash206]

Hello sir/madam,

I have Diesel generators of range above 100kva, so for reducing my diesel expenses...can i get a HHO unit for my diesel generators and if so...can you please tell me from where can i get it.... and in the same way i need HHO generator for my electric welding instrument. so please help me out.

Thanking you.

[BioFarmer93]

Thanks Gus.
I'm following all the math and I understand. But I was surprised at the 13A per Liter and the size of the plates. The unipolar is definitly way better.

The only thing that sucks is how much space the HDPE plates take up.

I've been doing alot of reading on this site and I've noticed their appears to only be around 4 people who are sharing there info. I don't know if this is because nobody else is expermenting or nobody else want to share.

Or is their nobody else who have built these unipolar setups?

Joops,
The 13A per liter is a best estimate based on the outputs of many different systems, yours may be a little better but it won't be worse. I estimate that your unit is going to be about 15"x7"x6"- not counting projections like fittings and bolt ends.
There are two other people I know of that build unipolar style reactors, one of them actually builds hybrid uni/bipolar units that are cutting edge stuff, but for the sake of patents being sought for it he has been advised by his lawyer to keep the details out of the public eye. The other guy is Larry (HHOPWR) and he checks in from time to time. His reactor is the result of a multi-week concerted group brainstorming and a Herculean effort in time and money on his part. His meticulously documented results confirmed the superiority of media blasting plates and the unipolar arrangement. Alas, all of this was accomplished on a site that has since been shut down, much to the sadness of us all.

[j oops]

This is getting better by the day.
I know your working on schematics for this.

I've done a rough drawing of some ideas I have on Microsoft PowerPoint. I have not put any measurements in. I can't find my URL #. And it throws an error code with the attachement option. Can you PM me your e-mail address.