pre ignition, engine damage

[PeteVamped]

You may want to buy a guide first which will tell you step by step by step how to build your first one. After your first one and complete set up is finished it only gets easier from there. Then you can start to experiment with other ways. Some of the guides on the market today show you the dos and donts and how to avoide engine damage. I would try that first and go from there.

[Q-Hack!]

HHo is a higher octain fuel and burns fast....

Actually you have it backwards... HHO is a lower octane fuel.

The octane rating of gasoline tells you how much the fuel can be compressed before it spontaneously ignites. When gasoline ignites by compression rather than because of the spark from the spark plug, it causes knocking in the engine. Lower-octane gas (like "regular" 87-octane gasoline) can handle the least amount of compression before igniting. HHO ignites at a lower pressure than gasoline, so therefore it has a lower octane rating.

Racers use high octane fuel because they are running a much higher compression than your average grocery getter. Anybody who believes that higher octane gives you more power, has bought into the gas companies hype. Octane adds nothing to the power of an engine. It only keeps the fuel from self igniting.

However your comment on being careful with leaning out your engine is spot on. I highly recommend people get an EGT. They are a bit pricey but well worth the safety to your engine.

[Roland Jacques]

Complicated subject IMO.

quote http://www.hydrogenassociation.org/g...aqs.asp#octane

What is the octane rating of hydrogen?
Short answer: "130+" according to a study done by the College of the Desert and Sunline Transit Agency

Longer answer: The octane rating of gasoline tells you how much the fuel can be compressed before it spontaneously ignites. When gas ignites by compression rather than because of the spark from the spark plug, it causes "knocking" in the engine. Knocking can damage an engine, so it is not something you want to have happening. Lower-octane gas (like "regular" 87-octane gasoline) can handle the least amount of compression before igniting compared to higher octane grades (like "super" 93-octane gasoline).

The compression ratio of your engine determines the octane rating of the gas you must use in the car. One way to increase the horsepower of an engine of a given displacement is to increase its compression ratio. So a "high-performance engine" has a higher compression ratio and requires higher-octane fuel. The advantage of a high compression ratio is that it gives your engine a higher horsepower rating for a given engine weight -- that is what makes the engine "high performance." The disadvantage is that for gasoline, it costs more.

Hydrogen has an octane rating of 130 because it can be compressed more than gasoline and 100% octane before the fuel automatically ignites in the engine. (Gasoline with 87-octane has 87% octane, a special kind of hydrocarbon that makes up gasoline and other fuels).

Here are some other octane ratings:
Methane: 125

Propane: 105

Octane: 100

Gasoline: 87

Diesel: 30

[Q-Hack!]

While hydrogen, by itself does have an octane rating of 130+, please remember that we are talking about HHO. Hydrogen by itself is not stoichiometric; HHO is.

Also, your little chart is misleading. While you can compress Hydrogen, Methane and Propane (they are gasses) you can't compress Gasoline until you vaporize it. Which coincidentally is what happens when you make it stoichiometric in a carburettor or fuel ejection. The values of 87 for gasoline and 30 for diesel are at stoichiometric and the rest of the list is not.


FYI, the new Ford P2000 runs at a fuel to air ratio less than stoichiometric in order to increase the octane rating. Hydrogen will become stoichiometric at 34.2:1 in normal atmosphere. Ford is using a ratio of 86:1

BMW's 750hL is using a different method. They cool the hydrogen down to a chilly -423 F. This has the added benefit of reducing the space required to store hydrogen. But primarily its so that they can run at 10.5:1 compression.

All of this is academically moot anyway. The HHO we are adding to the engine is so diluted by the time it hits the cylinder, you are nowhere near stoichiometric.

[cabrera]

but I really think I need to set this thing up on an old school engine for optimal performance tweaks and ease..

My thought exactly but only to learn 1st. The newer cars with all their sensors would require more electronics to tweak them. With a basic motor, you can test your build before you have to add MAF enhancers & 02 extenders etc.

This is my initial "test car" Basic & Simple!

[PeteVamped]

You need to make sure to get the right guide to get you started with the first one. There are many guides out there some offer a gurentee that you will not cause engine damage. It is just a matter of finding the right one. If you do not feel comfortable trying your hands at hho first you may want to try converting to a simpler alternate source which would be electric. I have done some extensive work on many kits which you cn find from both my blog and the main site. Also if you have any questions please feel free to contact me my email is on my main page. I will do the best I can to guide you through the process further. I do recommend you first try using one of the kits out there.

[Jager]

I'm testing on an OBD1 1990 Bronco II, I figure if I blow it up or burn it out, Oh well.

I have been experiencing a ping at high load acceleration, climbing hills ect....

I pulled the plugs to find them lean burning, pitted and chalky white... yikes not good.

These are old plugs and the gap was way open. I adjusted the gap to factory 0.044 (any suggestion on gaping plugs to suit HHO)

From what I'm gathering I should manually retard my timing seeing as I have a older OBD1 system.. any suggestions on how fair back I should twist the cap? I thought to start off I would twitch it back 1/2 degree to see if that would quiet the ping. I'm running 87 octane.

Thanks for the thread and your infinite wisdom and knowledge,

jager

[Roland Jacques]

Thanks Q-Hack, I learn something new all the time around here.

I find the whole octane and stoichiometric definitions confusing, then applying them to the variables of HHO boosting. I allways thought of stoichiometric as being the ideal mixture for burning a gases, whether gasoline, H2, ... the more i read that does not seem to be the correct definition but I'm not sure. And part of octane rating is the ability for the gases to burn and not explode once ignited how does that fit into mixing HHO with gasoline? Sometimes It seems the more i learn the less i know.

[Roland Jacques]

Q-Hack, can you reference any info on the HHO octane? I dont understand how H2 or any gases can be octane rated without O2 in the mix. stoichiometric?

[blagojg]

My hho damaged intercooler, because of corodion effect of electrolyte, and HHO was ignited by return gases from EGR just before entering the engine and intake was blasted with holes like granate
Car is MB CLK 2.7 CDI , Turbo diesel