please give me some idea!

[jonamse]

Hi All !

I just installed HHO Dry cell kit into my 09 Kia Rondo on 19th - gone through:
1) water leaking
2) engine check light came on - and could not start the car.
3) amp meter came with the kit does not work -so end up buying clamp on ammeter from Canadian Tire. (extra $60 ...

it has been interesting week...my wife was not happy, since she was the one who faced major problems listed above.

I have a millage chip, and all the set up was done right with my friend who is a electric engineer. - HHO gas production seems to be great - since I see bubbles.

my fuel economy is not going better but worse. Only half a tank I am going 200 km - which I could do nearly 300 km in June.
I see a lot of water coming out from the back pipe - and seems to me that is the sign of efficiency - but not yet showing on the dash board.

So, I am guessing my injection point may be the issue.

My Rondo only comes with Throttle body / MAF sensor combo unit.
So, I cannot use the method for modern car - "after MAF but before Throttle body." I do not wish to drill a hole in a Intake Manifold(need to lift the engine to do it.) so end up with making a injection point on the air filter box after the filter. (just to wish HHO gas and Air mix more naturally)
Some claims that I need to use K&N type filter to gain max performance for HHO / fuel chip- or use hose from the injection point get closer to the throttle to prevent HHO build up in the intake box or leaking from the side.

I tried to look into the tread but there are so many - I am cruelness for searching specific words and topics.

Would you please so kindly answer my concern and enlighten me for the HHO world.

Note: my kit - bought from HHO KITS DIRECT Tiny Titan 771 using NaOH as electrolyte.
- currently running 21amp ± 0.7 - hoping to have 2 LPM production.

service that I need to look into - change engine air filter / coolant / engine oil in 2 month.

[MtnGoatXJ]

Good news is that your system appears to be working correctly if the MPG has dropped. The O2 sensor is "seeing" a lean condition and compensating by adding extra fuel. Have your elec eng friend compensate for the extra oxygen and lean it out a tad.

That's the quick answer. I'm a noob too, so one of the guru's will chime in soon with a more refined reply.

[Quebecker]

Hi

I'm going to start to try to help you ....

First, you should contact Robert from "HHODirect" and ask them to assist you...

Your engine is a 2.4l (4 cylinder) or 2.7l (6 cylinder), then at 2 LPM, you inject too much of HHO gas. You should inject up to 1.3 LPM. I recommend you start with about 1.1 LPM.

Then, make sure that the product gas is not composed of vapor. Make the test with ice cube...

Look at this HHO Debug checklist
http://www.fuelsaver-mpg.com/hho-system-debugging

After completing this checklist, if you still have no improvement, asks Robert to change the chips mileage for EFIE

I hope this will help you

[BioFarmer93]

Jonamse,
I went to their web site and found out as much as I could about your reactor (which was very little once the hype was eliminated) They say it has two electrodes and that it is a hybrid wet/dry cell. I have a feeling that you are making more steam than anything else, but without measurements and observation from you it is difficult to say. Unfortunately these things are not "plug and play", and require tuning and tweaking.

[myoldyourgold]

It is interesting that with a 2 or 3 cell set up he is getting some gain. At least that is what it looks like to me. Looks like large gap 3 plate or 4 plate setup. What would the results be with a truly efficient reactor. I suspect that the really high gain testimonials are either honest mistakes or just BS. Just the same it does show that higher voltage is working to some extent in this setup. I would like to see some real data on this reactor and not the hype. I am sure it will come down to about 20 or more amps per liter but would be interesting to get the real facts. He does use a vacuum brake in the kit which is at least one good thing.

[jonamse]

Thanks guys for your insight.

As I have touched the line coming out from the generator - it was like a room temperature. I did not feel any burning sensation - so cell should not creating heat to produce steam. (21C under the shade today)
Although, the radiator behind the water tank may heats up the water and may create some steam. - but as I see the water level - should not be the serious issue but I must do the ice cube test and see...

So, too much of HHO gas can cause poor MPG! - I thought that I need at least 3 LPM for 2.4 L engine. Up to 1.3 sounds so little - but it makes more sense. Smaller amp used / with just enough HHO / good spark and better FE.

In the Video, Tiny Titan 771 produce 3LPM at 25 AMP ( I now not so sure about the result) : is that mean I should aim at about 15 AMP ± 1 or 2?
for now, I will keep 20 AMP until the time I need to change water (which is recommended by the maker)

I have read 10% concentration should be ideal - do we have formula for it?

My wife told me that the car was running fine today so I want to believe that things are going fine....and my choice of generator too.

I've never thought that HHO being this deep!

[BioFarmer93]

Jonamse,
I am going to start from your first post and try to answer as much as I can..

My fuel economy is not going better but worse. Only half a tank I am going 200 km - which I could do nearly 300 km in June.
This is because an ’09 Kia Rondo has four O2 sensors and your engine management system (computer) is seeing the HHO as a lean condition and richening up your mixture.

I see a lot of water coming out from the back pipe - and seems to me that is the sign of efficiency - but not yet showing on the dash board.
This is not efficiency, this is steam condensing in your exhaust system.

Some claims that I need to use K&N type filter to gain max performance for HHO / fuel chip- or use hose from the injection point get closer to the throttle to prevent HHO build up in the intake box or leaking from the side.
Your injection point is fine where it is at. A larger freer flowing air filter is always a good thing. HHO will not “build up” in the intake box as long as your engine is at least idling.

So, too much of HHO gas can cause poor MPG! - I thought that I need at least 3 LPM for 2.4 L engine. Up to 1.3 sounds so little - but it makes more sense. Smaller amp used / with just enough HHO / good spark and better FE.
No, the engine’s computer is causing the poor MPG, at 21 amps you are only making (at best) 1.4 lpm, the rest is steam. As for “how much HHO is proper” for an engine, let us say only that 0.5lpm per liter of displacement is an agreed upon “rule of thumb”. I am aware of no science that corroborates this amount.

For homework, you should research quad EFIE’s and O2 sensor shields and/or spacers, possibly even an AFR. One of our members, Richard (Ultra Efficient) can give you excellent advice on AFR’s and how to tune with them to help your car make the best use of HHO.

[myoldyourgold]

If you do not have an endometer or a bottle in a bucket to measure your gas output I suggest that the you use 17 amps per liter for your calculations. Anything with more gas than that per amp has moisture in it or is not temperature/Barometric pressure compensated. Use a hydrometer and a thermometer to measure your electrolyte. The charts have been posted on the forum many times, but here they are again:

http://www.handymath.com/cgi-bin/spc...i?submit=Entry

http://www.handymath.com/cgi-bin/nao...i?submit=Entry

Battery hydrometers are cheap. Quebecker is right so start at just over 1 LPM.

[jonamse]

Thanks for answering my question!

Today - Again, car could not start!!
I came home and found out that it was not the battery problem.
Looks like it was something to do with fuel pump.
I did take the on/off switch line from Fuel Pump Relay's 87 pin.
I push the relay harder in - pull the ECM fuse - waited - restarted the car -
now it is working as it was used to.

Rondo is famous for the Fuel Pump issue - so it might be that.

- for controlling O2 sensor - I have Volo's fuel chip tuned by same people who made the generator. each chip should be set for each details of the car.
(2009 Kia Rondo 2.4 L engine etc) so, hoping that this millage chip can do its job.


I did the ice cube test - no dew built up in the hose - I cannot say that the my hybrid generator produce pure HHO or with very little steam - but result was quite satisfying - that I am not waisting AMP to steam.

I did not have much time today - so I tried to count numbers of bubble per 10 seconds then times 6.

So tube's radius 0.625 cm - ball volume = 1.022 - 180 bubbles apx
In theory, at 20 AMP, production is 1.8LPM. (I know I am very wrong !!)
So at 15AMP I can do 1.3 ish ... I will see....

[jonamse]

Hi All

I am glad to report to you that I have reduced the amp down to 15-16 A range.
I cannot see any difference in the bubbler, but impression of drive have changed. There were some sense of faster acceleration. Feels good indeed.

I have checked the Bon Volk's site again, and noticed that the TT 771 is claimed to produce 3LPM at 20 AMP - so just maybe event at 15 AMP it might be over or just below 2LPM. (run out of distilled water)
I will try to aim 10 AMP and see the fuel meter.

What fun - I must say!