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Thread: I need help, and not to do

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2011
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    aguilas -murcia (spain)
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    I need help, and not to do

    Well, I'm about to throw in the towel because I do not see any savings, I have a fiat panda multijet diesel 4x4 2006, 1.3 liter engine,
    one of 10 plates drycell

    -nnn++nnn- 0.5 lpm of HHO at 10 amps (displacement test bottle).

    The engine I have made many variations, with more hho, hho less, I must say that the cell is not heated at all, as the electrolyte leads to 2% KOH.

    This last week I've put my holiday to modify the signals from the sensors (which are all analog) to see if fraud on the ecu, the engine has no sensor 02.

    I have begun to modify the sensor cts (coolant temp) so that the ECU see 10 degrees, placing a resistor in parallel to the sensor k of 3.9.

    I modified the IAT sensor (Intake air temp) by placing a resistance of 600ohms in parallel to the sensor and 40 degrees mark.

    I put a voltage regulator in line maf sensor Wref changing the input voltage of 5V to 4.8 volts, so that the ECU see readings of air flow 10% less.

    All this to make the ecu delay the injection point and inject less oil, and I know you do because I lost power, but I can not save anything, the car still spending the same but now with less power.

    a greeting for everyone

    Read more: I need help, and not to do - HHOINFO http://hhoinformation.com/forum/topi...#ixzz1XrHI5rAE

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    1,418
    Javier, with an efficient engine as you have it is going to be a challenge. Two major things could be happening. One the first injection is igniting the HHO and actually causing a loss in efficiency. This could be quite complicated and will not get into it at this time. I would like to know with out any adjustments to the injection, timing or anything else and injecting .5 LPM was there anything different in how the engine ran. More power felt, less power, more noise, less noise, etc.? This is important. When running more then .5 LPM with no changes did you experience any difference like asked above? The same question when running less than .5. You need to pay very careful attention to the engine performance in all three cases to see if there is any difference at all. This will help to give you some advise possibly.

    We will also need to know if how your 10 plate reactor is wired. I suspece it is -nn+nn-nn+. If this is the case change it to an 8 plate reactor -nnnnnn+. This might help and after getting some answers we might be able to help. Lots of good people here.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb."

    ONE Liter per minute per 10 amps which just isn't possible Ha Ha .

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    aguilas -murcia (spain)
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    Quote Originally Posted by myoldyourgold View Post
    Javier, with an efficient engine as you have it is going to be a challenge. Two major things could be happening. One the first injection is igniting the HHO and actually causing a loss in efficiency. This could be quite complicated and will not get into it at this time. I would like to know with out any adjustments to the injection, timing or anything else and injecting .5 LPM was there anything different in how the engine ran. More power felt, less power, more noise, less noise, etc.? This is important. When running more then .5 LPM with no changes did you experience any difference like asked above? The same question when running less than .5. You need to pay very careful attention to the engine performance in all three cases to see if there is any difference at all. This will help to give you some advise possibly.

    We will also need to know if how your 10 plate reactor is wired. I suspece it is -nn+nn-nn+. If this is the case change it to an 8 plate reactor -nnnnnn+. This might help and after getting some answers we might be able to help. Lots of good people here.
    thanks for the reply,
    I must say that the arrangement of the plates is that -nnn++nnn- .
    I noticed the engine better, more smooth with very little production of hho about 3 amp, but no profits.
    if the production of hydrogen increased to more than 10 amp seems to have a bit more power but a very strange thing happens; highway and a raise of 6 miles at full throttle during the ascent I noticed that the engine is warmed little more than usual (all this without changes to the sensors, hho only)
    without the hho this never happened.
    seems as if the gas explodes before the correct position of the piston.
    even today I retested rise when the engine is maximum and the sensors and also operated a raised temperature, but somewhat less

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    I must say that the arrangement of the plates is that -nnn++nnn- .
    I noticed the engine better, more smooth with very little production of hho about 3 amp, but no profits.
    if the production of hydrogen increased to more than 10 amp seems to have a bit more power but a very strange thing happens; highway and a raise of 6 miles at full throttle during the ascent I noticed that the engine is warmed little more than usual (all this without changes to the sensors, hho only)
    without the hho this never happened.
    seems as if the gas explodes before the correct position of the piston.
    even today I retested rise when the engine is maximum and the sensors and also operated a raised temperature, but somewhat less
    Thank you for the good information. Gong to an 8 plate reactor depending on how the ports are on the plates will help. You might want to set it up to turn off at idle. This is my theory not sure if it is correct. With the initial small injection the HHO is burning that fuel so efficiently that the main injection is lacking of 02 and not getting as good of a burn as it could. Let me study this engine a little and I will stick my foot in my mouth a little more later. LOL

    I am going to try and get exactly what the torque curve is on that little engine. I remember reading something about this engine and I believe it was quite efficient to begin with.

    With a more efficient reactor and just the right amount of HHO you will see some gain and a smother engine and hopefully no additional heat. Do not expect to double the mileage because that engine is quite efficient as it is. I will get back to you with how much HHO you should be injecting might take a couple days and with what else I might think off after reviewing the engine specs.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb."

    ONE Liter per minute per 10 amps which just isn't possible Ha Ha .

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2011
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    aguilas -murcia (spain)
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    Quote Originally Posted by myoldyourgold View Post
    Thank you for the good information. Gong to an 8 plate reactor depending on how the ports are on the plates will help. You might want to set it up to turn off at idle. This is my theory not sure if it is correct. With the initial small injection the HHO is burning that fuel so efficiently that the main injection is lacking of 02 and not getting as good of a burn as it could. Let me study this engine a little and I will stick my foot in my mouth a little more later. LOL

    I am going to try and get exactly what the torque curve is on that little engine. I remember reading something about this engine and I believe it was quite efficient to begin with.

    With a more efficient reactor and just the right amount of HHO you will see some gain and a smother engine and hopefully no additional heat. Do not expect to double the mileage because that engine is quite efficient as it is. I will get back to you with how much HHO you should be injecting might take a couple days and with what else I might think off after reviewing the engine specs.
    thank you very much for your attention, I must say that the model:
    opel corsa cdti 1.3 in 2004 to 2009 is the same engine

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    1,418
    Now I remember where I read about this engine in 2008 Tata motors put this engine in a Maruti (Suzuki) and I know some one who bought one and was getting about 90 miles per gallon (Imperial gallon) less than 3 L/100KM. I am sure it is not doing that good in your vehicle but in the small Suzuki it does real good. The engine has very little low end torque and max torque is between 1750 and 2500 rpm. It would help if you turn off the reactor at idle for sure. I am not sure but I think this engine injects 5 times per cycle and this is one of the reasons it gets such good mileage and causes us problems with HHO. Fiat was the one that came out with this first I think. It is a Fiat engine. There is very little room to get any gain with this engine. If set exactly right with a 7 cell (8 plate) bipolar series reactor at 2 to 5 amps and shutting off at idle you might see a little gain. At least it will clean up the exhaust and de-carbon the engine. Hope that helps
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb."

    ONE Liter per minute per 10 amps which just isn't possible Ha Ha .

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    aguilas -murcia (spain)
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    Quote Originally Posted by myoldyourgold View Post
    Now I remember where I read about this engine in 2008 Tata motors put this engine in a Maruti (Suzuki) and I know some one who bought one and was getting about 90 miles per gallon (Imperial gallon) less than 3 L/100KM. I am sure it is not doing that good in your vehicle but in the small Suzuki it does real good. The engine has very little low end torque and max torque is between 1750 and 2500 rpm. It would help if you turn off the reactor at idle for sure. I am not sure but I think this engine injects 5 times per cycle and this is one of the reasons it gets such good mileage and causes us problems with HHO. Fiat was the one that came out with this first I think. It is a Fiat engine. There is very little room to get any gain with this engine. If set exactly right with a 7 cell (8 plate) bipolar series reactor at 2 to 5 amps and shutting off at idle you might see a little gain. At least it will clean up the exhaust and de-carbon the engine. Hope that helps
    maybe this engine best results only with the addition of pure water vapor

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    aguilas -murcia (spain)
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    Quote Originally Posted by myoldyourgold View Post
    Now I remember where I read about this engine in 2008 Tata motors put this engine in a Maruti (Suzuki) and I know some one who bought one and was getting about 90 miles per gallon (Imperial gallon) less than 3 L/100KM. I am sure it is not doing that good in your vehicle but in the small Suzuki it does real good. The engine has very little low end torque and max torque is between 1750 and 2500 rpm. It would help if you turn off the reactor at idle for sure. I am not sure but I think this engine injects 5 times per cycle and this is one of the reasons it gets such good mileage and causes us problems with HHO. Fiat was the one that came out with this first I think. It is a Fiat engine. There is very little room to get any gain with this engine. If set exactly right with a 7 cell (8 plate) bipolar series reactor at 2 to 5 amps and shutting off at idle you might see a little gain. At least it will clean up the exhaust and de-carbon the engine. Hope that helps
    you tell me to shut down the generator at idle, but he commented that at idle the engine sounds perfect.
    an interesting point that I discovered today:
    with the engine at idle I ****ed the gas pipe that goes to the admission and have doubled in 30 seconds, and releasing the engine to rev up slightly for a second almost.
    then if we think the pilot injeccion is detrimental to hho how is it possible that more hho engine revs?
    Perhaps it is you need more gas?.

  9. #9
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    May 2011
    Location
    aguilas -murcia (spain)
    Posts
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    this is what is used in Europe for common rail diesel hho

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HHO-Hydrog...-/200577706354

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,418
    There is no savings using HHO at idle. The savings will come by not using HHO at idle. Less load on the alternator. It is just that simple. It takes more fuel to make HHO less fuel when not making it. This engine has less torque at idle and makes up for it with more fuel. Why make it when you do not need to. By not making HHO at idle you add to the total savings. As for how much HHO to use you need to experiment. In larger engines with lots of low end torque it might not make much difference, but will make a difference if it has an O2 sensor.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb."

    ONE Liter per minute per 10 amps which just isn't possible Ha Ha .

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