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Thread: Cheapest ECU bypass...

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by hhoelectronics View Post
    Here is how the wideband sensor works:

    http://wbo2.com/lsu/lsuworks.htm
    Ill admit I didnt know that all widebands dont use 5V. But do you agree that some of the aftermarket 1's do?
    your helpful links are nice, but it seems like you are discrediting everything Ive posted even though I just stated it was from the LC-1 manual. That it produces 5v(pg6) Do you still not believe me? look it up yourself. This is why tunners use a 5v WB, bc its much more acurate w/ 5x the playing field.

  2. #22
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    Oct 2011
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    huh, news to me.
    Also the whole Idea of dropping the fuel pressure 7psi didnt work as well as id planned. It works great in the city, but Above 65mph It goes into pig rich mode and my AFR gauge goes down to 10:1 thats way to rich. (This was without the HHO generator installed)

  3. #23
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    Now here is one for all you smart guys. HHO is a perfect mixture and so when injected all the H and the O that is injected should get burned up. If this is the case where does the extra O come from? This is the point that most scientists get hung up on. I have a problem with it too. If I had not experienced it I would not believe it. So what is the explanation.

    I do not have one but suspect that this is what is happening. The added HHO to the system is causing a better burn. I think everyone can agree with that. So what is left in the exhaust is less unburnt fuel/carbon which makes what little O left look like a lot to the sensor. The ratio of unburnt fuel/carbon in the exhaust is less and there is still some O that was not needed. Where this gets sticky is that in order for any of the fuel/carbon to burn it takes O. So one can say that because of the better burn there should be less O not more. So this is a stretch at best. Now lets hear some other opinions.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb."

    ONE Liter per minute per 10 amps which just isn't possible Ha Ha .

  4. #24
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    My opinion here (might be wrong)
    I think its basically what you said. Since the HHO provides a more complete burn what ever little O2 is left over, its still more than the other elements. Since the sensor only detects the percentage of air comparable air to the atmosphere in the exhaust gas. So it reads a higher o2 reading. The only reason this could be is because the burn is so complete that there is oxygen to spare.
    I do think this would only be possible with higher output units that have = to or more than .5LHHO/ 1Lof engine.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen_sensor
    if you look at the picture of an o2 sensor here. It seems the O2 detector is really a normal air detector since its reference air is atmosphere.
    What would really need to happen is find out in a lab is what, if any chemical reactions in the exhaust gas w/ HHO make fuel less detectable to an o2 sensor or in other words more like normal air.

    Or maybe the HHO reacts w/ the gas vapors to form something more closer to the o2sensors reference air and wa la higher afr. For example less COx and more CO2 = higher afr bc its more like atmoshpereic air.

    Like i was saying earlier for this theory to work you have to have a higher LPM output to actually need all the gas trimming mods bc you are producing that much HHO. The question is how much HHO does it take to produce a noticeable difference to your sensor?

  5. #25
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    Niceguy, I think we are on a similar page if not the same. I found by increasing the amount of exhaust that is recycled (EGR) and playing with the way the PCV (crankcase ventilation system) by taking out the pulse and controlling it with a valve I was able to fool the O2. This was way more complicated than just using an EFIE and of course in violation of the law so abandoned this testing. The results was still a cleaner exhaust and an increase in mileage though.

    The reason I brought this up in this thread is because it gets to the hart of the problem and why we need an EFIE/ MAF controller.

    You are right about getting the exhaust analyzed with a gas spectrometer. This would help a lot and eliminate the guessing or assumptions that are just guess with a little practical theory to back them up.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb."

    ONE Liter per minute per 10 amps which just isn't possible Ha Ha .

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by koya1893 View Post
    Mr. Niceguy,
    I've been away from the forum due isolated work. One thing I picked up from the long post above, is "Now if you wanted to just use an AFPR to enhance your mpg you can. But just remember since the HHO gives more O reading to the O2 sensor I would add 0.4-0.6 to AFR gauge to get an accurate reading". It is stating that using HHO will give you more O reading to the O2 sensors. I disagree with you there, the reason the O2 will tell the ECU to schedule more fuel is because using HHO promotes clean and efficient burn, hence you are eleminating emission in turn you have a cleaner exhaust the O2detects not from the MINUTE amount of Oxygen from your system. It is so minute that you probably cannot measure it, and if it was a large amount, one would think, again I am not the expert in this field. That amount would be used during combustion process.

    I've performed test on my vehicles and clients, what we are trying to do is outside the box, the ECU will only learn what is close to the norm operation. hence I've taken the another approach to saving on vehicle that will not respond. that's increasing the power to weight ration, I discovered this by accident with the Infinity I was working with.

    At first I was told it had two O2, one front and one rear. I treated the front like I did others decrease the signal by 100mv initially and increase the rear by 200mv. I discovered later that it has more than two O2, it had four. two front (narrow) and two rear. My initial setting thinking there are two o2, I increased the signal on one and decrease on the other. when I discovered the other two O2 I re-wired everything as per the EFIE instruction, increase the signal on the rear 200mv and decrease the front by 100mv to 350mv. The mileage went down, I was puzzled for sometime. then it hit me, the fron setting I changed to add to the signal and maintain the standard signal on the rear. It is consitantly yielding 29.2 mpg city using regular gas vice the high octane recommended.

    With those setting I can credit it to the power to weight ration increase. I have other example but those I cannot share as they are being patended with the application...
    Sorry for the delayed response to this, but just reread this and know the answer. The reason why a the ECU will throw a code or ignore alterations if the rear injection bank is lower than the front, is because this is really impossible and it will know something is screwy.
    To explain, the rear bank is where the fuel goes into the injection rails on(most cars) this should always have higher pressure than the front bank.
    Reasoning is pretty simple, on a v6 there is 3 fuel exits before looping around to the front and returning to the tank. How big is the pressure difference? I dont know, but I wouldnt think it would be more than 3psi cruise and maybe 5 psi WOT. But the point being is if the front is getting a richer signal it will flag a CEL and say you have a bad rear o2 and go into open loop. Make sense?

    High performance guru's and turbo junkies solve the lean front bank problem( especially the last cyl to get fuel) by adding a dual feed line. That way both banks get as equal fuel as possible, really not neccessary on a DD. Heres a modded PGT (Probe GT) and the duel feed. http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/...d/IMG_4469.jpg http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/...d/IMG_4466.jpg You can see instead of going into the rear and comming back like the fuel should, he has it so the fuel feeds both rails from the other side and returns to the tank via the AFPR

    Also to update on my fuel pressure mod, this is kind of embarrasing. I used a 4wire o2 on my 3wire harness. I just left the extra wire unplugged. I was getting CELs bc of an inconsistent signal because the wire I left out was the signal ground wire. Now that its grounded. Now my reading toggles back and forth like it should, so ill have to see this time how much gas I save on the hwy and get a more accurate assessment. Before it would stay either super lean or super rich bc of no ground.

  7. #27
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    Oct 2011
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    well so far from my results the ECU has just bumped up the injector duty cycle a little bit with the lower fuel pressure resulting in NO MPG gain. Coulda swore that would have worked, just ignore this thread, the ECU is smarter than my idea

    should get a gain now with my EFIE from eagle research.

  8. #28
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    Should get a gain now with my EFIE from eagle research.
    I have great respect for the work Wiseman has done in this field especially in the chemistry make up of the gas produced by electrolysis. He is well published and respected but not everyone agrees with him on all points.

    His EFIE is very basic even though you should see some gains using his methods but it is by no means the best available out there. The price is right though but might reflect in the gains and how long the gains last.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb."

    ONE Liter per minute per 10 amps which just isn't possible Ha Ha .

  9. #29
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    whats your most recomended efie(s)

  10. #30
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    whats your most recomended efie(s)
    For just a simple EFIE here is a good one. I would not recommend any simple EFIE though. You really need to do more than just the O2 sensors. See the second link.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-DESIGN-B...item3a6b7b85d4

    If you get the one in link below make sure it is the one for your vehicle and the map turns on with the Tstat switch and off when power is off.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/2012-MODEL-T...item3a6b88143e

    PM me for information about a new development that will be available in February which will be much better than any of these.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb."

    ONE Liter per minute per 10 amps which just isn't possible Ha Ha .

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