Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 30

Thread: Cheapest ECU bypass...

  1. #11
    if you really want to learn more about ECU's and open;closed loop check this forum out. not to take away from hho but they tell you alot of info in which you can maximize your hho experience.

    this is for people who really want to tune their personal cars and have it run efficient. Most of it is talked about hondas but you will get the idea.

    Look under tuning! and READ READ READ

    http://wikitest.pgmfi.org/twiki/bin/...ibrary/WebHome

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    333
    Quote Originally Posted by mr.niceguy View Post
    There are many ways to mod the ECU. But if you cant, you can install a AFPR(adjustable Fuel pressure Regulator) Stock setting is usually 43psi. If you cant get the ECU to reduce fuel input. Cut the fuel supply manually by reducing the incoming fuel pressure. IE lower to 35psi. YOu can get 1 on EBay for $20.

    Hows it work? An FPR acts as a constrictor on the return line to your fuel tank. aka like a thumb on the end of a garden hose. higher FP= more fuel better performance, (12.5 AFR) is peak performance. Lower FP = better mpg. DONT go 2 lean though.

    This should only be done w/ an AFR(air to fuel ration gauge) and a EGT(Exhaust gas temp) gauge is also a good idea Anything above 1600F and you will be in trouble... eventually sooner or later. 15-15.5 AFR reading is slightly lean but ok anything higher and youll risk damage like melting your cat if you have 1 or warping valves ect.

    Now if you wanted to just use an AFPR to enhance your mpg you can. But just remember since the HHO gives more O reading to the O2 sensor I would add 0.4-0.6 to AFR gauge to get an accurate reading.( If you have a higher LPM based on your engine size you could add more, but the rule of thumb is .5L HHO/ 1Lengine) The ECU shoots for 14.7 AFR (stoich) but really this same gas ratio should be about 15.2 w/ HHO. So simply reduce your Fuel pressure until you reach this reading. This setup will cause a check engine light(CEL), but the good thing about it is that the ECU wont be able to add anymore fuel once put in closed loop, just lower the FP till the readings are as state above, about 15.2 and you should be fine.
    Check the spark plugs after a week or 2 and make sure they are not white. White indicates a lean cond. Tan is the proper color.

    NOTE: only adjust the FP when the car has fully warmed up. It will run richer when the car is warming up. This is not a bad thing.
    If youre worried about passing an inspection. Just raise FP back up erase CEL, pass, then turn back down.
    Mr. Niceguy,
    I've been away from the forum due isolated work. One thing I picked up from the long post above, is "Now if you wanted to just use an AFPR to enhance your mpg you can. But just remember since the HHO gives more O reading to the O2 sensor I would add 0.4-0.6 to AFR gauge to get an accurate reading". It is stating that using HHO will give you more O reading to the O2 sensors. I disagree with you there, the reason the O2 will tell the ECU to schedule more fuel is because using HHO promotes clean and efficient burn, hence you are eleminating emission in turn you have a cleaner exhaust the O2detects not from the MINUTE amount of Oxygen from your system. It is so minute that you probably cannot measure it, and if it was a large amount, one would think, again I am not the expert in this field. That amount would be used during combustion process.

    I've performed test on my vehicles and clients, what we are trying to do is outside the box, the ECU will only learn what is close to the norm operation. hence I've taken the another approach to saving on vehicle that will not respond. that's increasing the power to weight ration, I discovered this by accident with the Infinity I was working with.

    At first I was told it had two O2, one front and one rear. I treated the front like I did others decrease the signal by 100mv initially and increase the rear by 200mv. I discovered later that it has more than two O2, it had four. two front (narrow) and two rear. My initial setting thinking there are two o2, I increased the signal on one and decrease on the other. when I discovered the other two O2 I re-wired everything as per the EFIE instruction, increase the signal on the rear 200mv and decrease the front by 100mv to 350mv. The mileage went down, I was puzzled for sometime. then it hit me, the fron setting I changed to add to the signal and maintain the standard signal on the rear. It is consitantly yielding 29.2 mpg city using regular gas vice the high octane recommended.

    With those setting I can credit it to the power to weight ration increase. I have other example but those I cannot share as they are being patended with the application...

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Rimouski, Québec, CANADA
    Posts
    212
    Hi Ben,

    I have some difficulty understanding. Would it be possible to answer my questions because I'd like to make these settings to my car seems not to like with the addition of HHO gas :-(


    Your front sensors are Wideband sensor (A/F ratio sensor) or Narrow (conventional O2 sensor) ?


    Initials setting
    ===========
    Front: -100 mV
    Rear: +200 mV


    Final setting ???
    ============

    Front: -350 mV (from -100 to 350)
    Rear: +400 mV ffrom 200 to 400)


    Regards

    Rémi

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    333
    Quote Originally Posted by Quebecker View Post
    Hi Ben,

    I have some difficulty understanding. Would it be possible to answer my questions because I'd like to make these settings to my car seems not to like with the addition of HHO gas :-(


    Your front sensors are Wideband sensor (A/F ratio sensor) or Narrow (conventional O2 sensor) ?


    Initials setting
    ===========
    Front: -100 mV
    Rear: +200 mV


    Final setting ???
    ============

    Front: -350 mV (from -100 to 350)
    Rear: +400 mV ffrom 200 to 400)


    Regards

    Rémi
    Maybe I did not express that correctly:

    This is for narrow band O2.

    front = 400mv At this setting you are decreasing the standard signal from 450mv down to 400, less 50mv.

    rear = 20mv At this setting you are only adding 20 mv to the standard of 450mv to signal the ECU.

    At this setting re-set your ECU several times withint 300 miles, so every 100 miles re-set, then run it like this for 500miles. The other thing I discovered on the Infinity is inducing close 1 to 1 ratio. I was inducing 2-2.5LPM.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Rimouski, Québec, CANADA
    Posts
    212
    Quote Originally Posted by koya1893 View Post
    Maybe I did not express that correctly:

    This is for narrow band O2.

    front = 400mv At this setting you are decreasing the standard signal from 450mv down to 400, less 50mv.

    rear = 20mv At this setting you are only adding 20 mv to the standard of 450mv to signal the ECU.

    At this setting re-set your ECU several times withint 300 miles, so every 100 miles re-set, then run it like this for 500miles. The other thing I discovered on the Infinity is inducing close 1 to 1 ratio. I was inducing 2-2.5LPM.
    Ben,

    I'm not 100% sure but I think for the front O2 sensor, the EFIE don't decreasing 400 mV but it increase by 400 mv. Because it's a narrow band O2 (conventional O2).

    An narrow band O2 sensor, no matter whether forward or backward works the same way.


    Narrow band O2 sensor -> 0 to 1 volts
    ===========================

    0.05 to 0.4 v, lean mixture
    0.45 v, stoic
    0.5 to 0.95 v, rich mixture

    --> The EFIE must increase the voltage


    Wideband A/F ratio sensor -> 0 to 5 volts
    =============================

    3.3 v and less (current flow - ): rich mixture
    3.3 v (no current flow): stoic (14.7:1 ratio)
    3.3 v (current flow +) : lean mixture

    --> The EFIE must decrease the voltage

    Correct me if I am wrong

    Regards
    Remi

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Rimouski, Québec, CANADA
    Posts
    212
    Quote Originally Posted by hhoelectronics View Post
    Remi,

    The EFIE does not work in the way you presented it. You are "relatively" correct about the voltages at the sensors, but the EFIE works on a different principle.
    HI,

    And could you clarify how the EFIE work (I think it's amperage ) ?

    Thanks

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    19
    Quote Originally Posted by koya1893 View Post
    Mr. Niceguy,
    I disagree with you there, the reason the O2 will tell the ECU to schedule more fuel is because using HHO promotes clean and efficient burn, hence you are eleminating emission in turn you have a cleaner exhaust the O2detects not from the MINUTE amount of Oxygen from your system. It is so minute that you probably cannot measure it, and if it was a large amount, one would think, again I am not the expert in this field. That amount would be used during combustion process.
    Didnt know that. But as far as a clean and efficient burn. Could you specify fully what causes that. Its my understanding that the engine is using hydrogen more for a combustion(energy source) and this allows for a lower fuel input, but what happens to the injected gas? How is it burned more completely? I thought it was with the 33%O along with the 66%H
    I believe the amount of O your pumping into the intake varies with the LPM of the sys you have set up. For every 2H's theres an O so its not as minute as you might think.

    Try filling a balloon with Hydrogen and lighting it, then 1 with O2 do the same, Now combine them IIRC(8th grade science class lol) the most loud and explosive ballon is the HHO combo. The O acts as a catalyst w/ the H.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjcztiNGg_8

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTEX38bQ-2w

    Why am I babling about balloons? its because I think the O2 aids in the cleaner burn, but am not sure how much though. I guess to test it you could do a pure H setup. AL on a - led will produce ALO3 +H giving pure H into your sys. Then you could see the difference.
    Note: the O corrodes the AL surface and makes a cloudy mess relatively quickly. Im currently messing w/ AL shavings in KOH. No electricity needed, but how to stop the reaction is my current tests. Im going to try a sock and pull it out lol.



    Quote Originally Posted by koya1893 View Post
    With those setting I can credit it to the power to weight ration increase. I have other example but those I cannot share as they are being patended with the application...
    Im a little confused. weight reduction is removing weight. Did you remove the rear seats and the spare? only fill up 1/2tank every time?


    Quote Originally Posted by Quebecker View Post
    HI,

    And could you clarify how the EFIE work (I think it's amperage ) ?

    Thanks
    Wide Band Sensors use the same concept as narrow band, but use 0-5V

    edit:
    0-.5v (depending on sensor) for rich

    4.5-5v(depending on sensor) for lean.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    19
    I have a Glow Shift WB gauge w/ sensor (look it up on EBay)

    I do know for a FACT that it reads from .5v-5v and Im pretty sure the higher the voltage the leaner it is. I put a multi meter on the signal wire and thats the voltage. I think 5v was lean, 0.5 was rich.
    I mixed up the lean and rich voltages on my prior post and it has been edited.

    This is the volatage and Lambda of the LC-1 directly copied from their manual.
    0V=.5λ (AFR of 7.35 for gasoline) and 5.0V=1.523λ

    For my glowshift it goes from 10 AFR-20

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    333
    Quote Originally Posted by mr.niceguy View Post
    Didnt know that. But as far as a clean and efficient burn. Could you specify fully what causes that. Its my understanding that the engine is using hydrogen more for a combustion(energy source) and this allows for a lower fuel input, but what happens to the injected gas? How is it burned more completely? I thought it was with the 33%O along with the 66%H
    I believe the amount of O your pumping into the intake varies with the LPM of the sys you have set up. For every 2H's theres an O so its not as minute as you might think.

    Try filling a balloon with Hydrogen and lighting it, then 1 with O2 do the same, Now combine them IIRC(8th grade science class lol) the most loud and explosive ballon is the HHO combo. The O acts as a catalyst w/ the H.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjcztiNGg_8

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTEX38bQ-2w

    Why am I babling about balloons? its because I think the O2 aids in the cleaner burn, but am not sure how much though. I guess to test it you could do a pure H setup. AL on a - led will produce ALO3 +H giving pure H into your sys. Then you could see the difference.
    Note: the O corrodes the AL surface and makes a cloudy mess relatively quickly. Im currently messing w/ AL shavings in KOH. No electricity needed, but how to stop the reaction is my current tests. Im going to try a sock and pull it out lol.





    Im a little confused. weight reduction is removing weight. Did you remove the rear seats and the spare? only fill up 1/2tank every time?




    Wide Band Sensors use the same concept as narrow band, but use 0-5V

    edit:
    0-.5v (depending on sensor) for rich

    4.5-5v(depending on sensor) for lean.
    It's been awhile since I had to explain this concept of "power to weight retion". I'll give it a try: Let say the current amount of fuel being scheduled per each combustion process can move a car 10mph, that's taking in consideration the fuel being pushed out as waste, and thermal energy for that amount of fuel. Introducing hydrogen acting a catylst would increase efficiency of the combustion process to the point, instead of pushing the waste fuel out it will be combust. Hence that 10-20% wasted fuel not being used will be used, hence you just increase the power from the same amount of fuel from using the wasted percentage. Now take in consideration the energy affect of hydrogen as a catylst for the fueal air mixture pre each combustion process, increasing the efficiency of your normal combustion process.

    I know I probably srewed that all up, but I am sure those smarted than I will jumped in here to correct me and put the real language in thermodynamic terms to all those "Laws" which I can never get them all right. I hope you get what I am trying to say.

    Bottom line is, the O2 will not read the amount oxygen being produced from your cell, it will be used up during the combustion process as an aid, as demonstrated in the link you posted.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    19
    Quote Originally Posted by koya1893 View Post
    It's been awhile since I had to explain this concept of "power to weight retion". I'll give it a try: Let say the current amount of fuel being scheduled per each combustion process can move a car 10mph, that's taking in consideration the fuel being pushed out as waste, and thermal energy for that amount of fuel. Introducing hydrogen acting a catylst would increase efficiency of the combustion process to the point, instead of pushing the waste fuel out it will be combust. Hence that 10-20% wasted fuel not being used will be used, hence you just increase the power from the same amount of fuel from using the wasted percentage. Now take in consideration the energy affect of hydrogen as a catylst for the fueal air mixture pre each combustion process, increasing the efficiency of your normal combustion process.

    I know I probably srewed that all up, but I am sure those smarted than I will jumped in here to correct me and put the real language in thermodynamic terms to all those "Laws" which I can never get them all right. I hope you get what I am trying to say.

    Bottom line is, the O2 will not read the amount oxygen being produced from your cell, it will be used up during the combustion process as an aid, as demonstrated in the link you posted.
    ok that makes sense. But because it burns everything more completely with the HHO that wont cause heat build up bc hydrogen burns cool. Is that correct?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •