771 hho kit reconstruction results

[Havens78]

Many of you know that I dis-assembled the unit I was running in the family car as there were a few problems with it. Before disassembling the unit I was producing 1.5 LPM (liter bottle 40 seconds) at 30 amps/13 volts and 4 tablespoons of sodium hydroxide. After cleaning all the plates, re-sanding ( 40 grit, 4 directions -45 min a plate) and plate passivation with citric acid my results are very different. My numbers shouldn't be this low, is it possible that I did something wrong?

New numbers:
15 amps/13 volts - 1.2 LPM (liter bottle in 50 seconds) at 18 tablespoons of sodium hydroxide.

14 amps/13 volts - 1.17 LPM (Liter bottle in 53 seconds) at 16 tablespoons of sodium hydroxide.

12 amps/13 volts - .9 LPM (liter bottle in 66 seconds) at 9 tablespoons of sodium hydroxide.

The gaskets are 1/8" thick, should I just keep raising the % of sodium hydroxide until i hit the 1.25 lpm that I need for my 2.5 liter engine? My numbers shouldn't be this low without blasting and weld-on should they? I'm just confused, i'm not complaining but really i'm just trying to figure this out.


thanks.

[koya1893]

Many of you know that I dis-assembled the unit I was running in the family car as there were a few problems with it. Before disassembling the unit I was producing 1.5 LPM (liter bottle 40 seconds) at 30 amps/13 volts and 4 tablespoons of sodium hydroxide. After cleaning all the plates, re-sanding ( 40 grit, 4 directions -45 min a plate) and plate passivation with citric acid my results are very different. My numbers shouldn't be this low, is it possible that I did something wrong?

New numbers:
15 amps/13 volts - 1.2 LPM (liter bottle in 50 seconds) at 18 tablespoons of sodium hydroxide.

14 amps/13 volts - 1.17 LPM (Liter bottle in 53 seconds) at 16 tablespoons of sodium hydroxide.

12 amps/13 volts - .9 LPM (liter bottle in 66 seconds) at 9 tablespoons of sodium hydroxide.

The gaskets are 1/8" thick, should I just keep raising the % of sodium hydroxide until i hit the 1.25 lpm that I need for my 2.5 liter engine? My numbers shouldn't be this low without blasting and weld-on should they? I'm just confused, i'm not complaining but really i'm just trying to figure this out.


thanks.

The 1.2LPM and 15 amps is a norm at that mixture and with your plates threaded as yyou have. How big (capacity) is your reservoir? Instead of tblsp measurement, try using 1lb. per gl. of distilled wated with the same configuration.

Care to show us your cell configuration?

[Havens78]

The 1.2LPM and 15 amps is a norm at that mixture and with your plates threaded as yyou have. How big (capacity) is your reservoir? Instead of tblsp measurement, try using 1lb. per gl. of distilled wated with the same configuration.

Care to show us your cell configuration?

Capacity is approximately 6 quarts with the addition of the remote reservoir, and the cell was purchased from a company but started to give me some trouble and after discovering loose bolts i investigated further. The quote below is from another thread where we were discussing these units. I'm now running 16 oz of sodium hydroxide to a gallon of distilled water and my production is topped out at 1.3 lpm. For now its a good fix until i can improve the plates with blasting and weld-on. Production is down a little but I know i'm getting better efficiency because of the results I had driving this weekend. Cleaning/sanding/passivation was well worth the time it took me, i'm seeing better results.

As promised, i was cleaning/draining and found some pretty nasty looking fluid on the inside of the elbows at the reactor so I took it apart to see if everything was alright.


7x7x2.125" reactor
+nnnnn- configuration

neutrals are 5"x5.25", held in place by 1/4" gasket strips on the edges, see photos. active area is 4.75"x5", but the plates are flooded at all times.

bolts on the back were not tight at all, more than finger tight but I only needed to have the socket in my hand to take everything apart. Plates look to be very lightly sanded in a circular motion, no consistent sanding was seen on any of the plates.






I'll be hitting them hard with 40 grit sandpaper in both diagonal/horizontal/vertical directions before putting it all through a cleaning and reconstruction.

[Havens78]

I will be testing a 773 (3 stack) unit over the weeks between holidays, I will update as soon as I have test results.

[Havens78]

I will be testing a 773 (3 stack) unit over the weeks between holidays, I will update as soon as I have test results.

It took me a while to get around to it, but finally had time to test the 773.

35 amps and 13.6 volts, 2 oz of NaOH to one gallon of distilled water.
2 liters per minute

+nnnnn-nnnnn+nnnnn-

Clearly simply throwing 3 times the steel at an inefficient reactor isn't going to triple the output. I'll be blasting and prepping the plates as soon as I can, hoping for better results.

havens

[myoldyourgold]

Heavens, the only thing throwing more metal does is allow you to run more amps. By doing that you make more gas. 10 amps makes x gas 20 amp make 2x gas. It is a direct relation in an efficient reactor. Of course if it is not efficient it just makes heat. You still have to stay under the .5 amps per active square inch on one side of one plate so are restricted. With 3 stacks you divide the amps by 3 so you can run 3 times the amps compared to a single stack. That does not necessarily make 3 times the gas though. Your results are about 4.46 mmw where 100% Faraday is 5.88 MMW. That really is not to bad if it is not laden with moisture.

[Havens78]

Had time to dismantle the 773 over the weekend, actual build was +nnnn-nnnnn+nnnnn- The last stack with only 4 neutrals was so loose that the plates were laying on each other, this will be remedied before the unit gets cleaned/prepped/reconstructed. As soon as i order another square of stainless, i'll update with improvement after it is reconstructed.

[Havens78]

Rather than start a new thread I just found my old one for posting results.

Reinstalled the 773 unit, and at 43 amps/13.5 volts (1 lb NaOH per gallon) i'm getting a whole 2 LPM after its warm. Ugh, the next step will be to take the +nnnnn-nnnnn+nnnnn- and make it into two separate single stack units. Hopefully i can reduce the size of the gasket down so i can run an extra neutral plate in each of these units. And it will be a good chance to see the differences in outlets/inlets on the sides and outlets/inlets on the end/top of the endplates. The current setup has the inlet inline with all of the openings on the bottom, the new stacks' endplates will be plumbed differently.

It will be after the beginning of May before i can get this started, but that's my next step.

Havens

[Havens78]

This weekend i'll be creating 3 new stacks from these 2 units (yes one of them is leaking horribly). One of the single stacks will get brand new end plates that will incorporate the magnets you see in the attached picture. 2 or 3 on each endplate, depending on if i can separate the two that are currently stuck together.

Plan is to run a regular stack and the magnet stack together from the same power source with the same mixed solution and test the differences. I'll update later this weekend.


havens

[Havens78]

Endplates are now finished with spaces for outlets and magnets, not shown is the hole i drilled for the inlet. I used a router to make a space at the top of the endplate that is the exact shape and size of the hole on the plates in an effort to create the easiest path for the hydrogen. Currently i'm trying to keep the magnets in place with weldon, as the unit is put together the magnets will oppose each other and will stay in place in the endplates. Simply using the weldon as a possible barrier to the solution, we'll see how it holds up.


Just a note to anyone wanting to try magnets, keep your endplates away from each other if the magnets are inside them. I've never seen magnets jump from one endplate to the other until today, these things are crazy.

Also made new gaskets out of 45 mil EPDM to replace the 3/32 gaskets that came with the kit. The original setup at 3/32 gaskets has room for 5 neutrals how it is built, with 45 mil EPDM I have room for 8 neutrals before i can securely bolt it back together. I might try them both if i have time, I don't want to go back with the original gaskets if I can get away with it. But 8 neutrals would have me sitting at 1.45 volts per gap at 13.4 volts total, even with magnets i don't know if that will be enough. Does anyone have experience with this?