kilowatt vs. BTU

[myoldyourgold]

The one thing we are not taking into consideration is the quality of the HHO. That is one of the reasons why there is no standard BTU rating for it. It has a huge range because of the types of reactors. If you can up the quality to its maximum then it is a totally different ball game and can be quite dangerous too. I can attest to that. I can not say I have achieved this consistently but have had intermittent success.

Mikeinri, all I am willing to say about my reactor when compared to Faraday is close. That could be over or under. LOL

[madman]

Not counting very small or very large amounts, electricity is measured in kilowatts, which is one thousand watts . Electric companys charge at a rate of kilowatt hour. U.E. charges 10 cents per K.W. hour. A watt is energy used and is computed by mutiplying voltage x amps.

Now lets say I have a HHO reactor that runs at 220 volts and draws 9.09 amps. Now I run it for 1 hour. This costs me 20 cents. If I run 5 of these units in parallel it costs $1 per hour. If I make a heater and the duty cycle or acual burn time is 25% then the unit runs 6 hours per day for a cost of $6 per day. That is $180 per month. A month with moderate temps costs me over $300 at work.

Lets make a guestimate that each reactor produces 10 LPM x5 is 50 LPM. I am a little stuburn and am still convinced that with suficient amounts of HHO a heater can be made to work . I mean work as well but hopefully better (cheaper) than conventual types.

With 50 LPM and the unusual properties of HHO including the ability to heat things to EXTREMLY high temps I would think we could all come together here to overcome this thing. We do not need to reinvent the wheel or even invent something new. We just need to take existing technology and material, mix in a little chemistry, engineering, mechanics, fizics, and a little backyard tinkering.

What do ya think?

[mikeinri]

Not counting very small or very large amounts, electricity is measured in kilowatts, which is one thousand watts . Electric companys charge at a rate of kilowatt hour. U.E. charges 10 cents per K.W. hour. A watt is energy used and is computed by mutiplying voltage x amps.

Now lets say I have a HHO reactor that runs at 220 volts and draws 9.09 amps. Now I run it for 1 hour. This costs me 20 cents. If I run 5 of these units in parallel it costs $1 per hour. If I make a heater and the duty cycle or acual burn time is 25% then the unit runs 6 hours per day for a cost of $6 per day. That is $180 per month. A month with moderate temps costs me over $300 at work.

Lets make a guestimate that each reactor produces 10 LPM x5 is 50 LPM. I am a little stuburn and am still convinced that with suficient amounts of HHO a heater can be made to work . I mean work as well but hopefully better (cheaper) than conventual types.

With 50 LPM and the unusual properties of HHO including the ability to heat things to EXTREMLY high temps I would think we could all come together here to overcome this thing. We do not need to reinvent the wheel or even invent something new. We just need to take existing technology and material, mix in a little chemistry, engineering, mechanics, fizics, and a little backyard tinkering.

What do ya think?

There is no doubt that a heater can be made. But the BTU output will stink. It will cost more than if we had electric heat.

We need some technology to blow away Faradays formula. UV laser ultrasound or something else that will increase the HHO production more then what stand alone electrolysis will do.

Even if we get the electricity from solar power to produce the HHO you would be better off just dumping the solar back into the grid and using electric heat.

Have a good night. I'll be brainstorming outside the box.

Mike

[BioFarmer93]

The only reason I convert everything back to watts per hour is so I can compare it to electric heat.

It might have been a good idea to make this statement much earlier in the diatribe...

myoldyourgold,

I'm also sorry for my derogatory comments towards you.

I felt like I was being attacked for asking questions. Perhaps it was a misunderstanding in the way I was asking them and you were only trying to lend me some of your knowledge.

If we could, let’s move forward to productive educational posts.

Mike

Damn, now I have mixed feelings about you. I almost wish you had not apologized.
As myold' stated earlier, he is not the resident flamer... I AM. Mike, I'm going to be blatantly honest with you and communicate to you thoughts of mine that I would typically save for the back channel. Since you seem like a very bright young man, I'm sure you'll be able to understand why I'm saying this openly- based upon your openly personal attack of a highly esteemed mentor, and not just his ideas.
That you *may* have something of actual value to offer here (though nothing yet) is the ONLY thing that has kept me from taking the steps to have your rude ass banned. I had chosen to stay out of this thread because I had nothing to contribute and my time is at a premium these days, however I still check in two or three times a day to keep tabs on what's going on. For this thread, I can honestly tell you that I don't remember a time when I have exercised so much self control, figuratively biting my tongue at every turn.
The fact that Mark (madman) is relatively new here, and that Carter (myoldyourgold) is a gentleman of the first order are quite possibly the only things that kept your beans out of the fire. As far as I’m concerned, your ass is on probation and you need to remember that. Don’t argue a point or a concept in that manner again- you can be dismissive of the idea, point or concept, but do not be dismissive of the person who made or offered it. I don’t ever want to see this happen again, and if it does, you’ll be able to count the minutes between your last post and the point at which your logon no longer functions. I won’t respond to any comment public or private that you may have in response to this particular post of mine. If want to talk HHO that’s fine, but this post is a standalone and not for debate. Gus

[keiththevp]

Damn Gus when did they give you the ban hammer?

Anyway .... back to the topic.

A SAFE HHO heater has always been an interest of mine as I freeze my ass off in the winter working on HHO in the garage. It only took one month of running an electric heater in the garage to realize the $150 a month extra was better served towards projects rather then comfort.

I think the one main thing people dismiss with using HHO as a heater is that it reacts differently to every material you place in it's flame. So the real key to me is finding the right material to heat and or use as a heat exchanger in order to see better results then an electric heater that is very efficient in itself.

One idea I came up with that is NOT SAFE but would produce tremendous efficient heat would be to have your hho flame inside of a sealed metal sphere, remember the O is in there so no need for outside air for it to burn and when it burns it drops in volume so much the sphere would take a long time to fill up with water. So think of the sphere and burner inside as a filament that would need to be changed. So you take this sphere and place it in a standard oil based radiant heater and I think you will find that it will out produce an electric heater.

THE BIG HOWEVER though is finding the right size and strength to the sphere so that it does not blow up and hit you with hot oil and shrapnel when your flame burns out and the ignitor kicks in.

[mikeinri]

Damn Gus when did they give you the ban hammer?

Anyway .... back to the topic.

A SAFE HHO heater has always been an interest of mine as I freeze my ass off in the winter working on HHO in the garage. It only took one month of running an electric heater in the garage to realize the $150 a month extra was better served towards projects rather then comfort.

I think the one main thing people dismiss with using HHO as a heater is that it reacts differently to every material you place in it's flame. So the real key to me is finding the right material to heat and or use as a heat exchanger in order to see better results then an electric heater that is very efficient in itself.

One idea I came up with that is NOT SAFE but would produce tremendous efficient heat would be to have your hho flame inside of a sealed metal sphere, remember the O is in there so no need for outside air for it to burn and when it burns it drops in volume so much the sphere would take a long time to fill up with water. So think of the sphere and burner inside as a filament that would need to be changed. So you take this sphere and place it in a standard oil based radiant heater and I think you will find that it will out produce an electric heater.

THE BIG HOWEVER though is finding the right size and strength to the sphere so that it does not blow up and hit you with hot oil and shrapnel when your flame burns out and the ignitor kicks in.

Cool thought Keith. It would be like a HHO light bulb. How would you get more heat out then you input? That would be my question. If I put a HHO flame on a needle point I burn through the surface in seconds. If I pick a number 500 BTUs, that is used. OK, so if I disperse it over a surface of 1 square foot and use it as an exchanger I still only have 500 BTUs for heat.

A heat pump uses electric for its power and heats or cools. It delivers up to 5 times the BTUs as an electric heater because it causes a change in state of the heating medium.

Are you planning on a change of state in the object? If you cause a pressure increase you create heat. Would there be a pressure increase inside or would it stay neutral? You could go from a vacuum to 3000 psi. Tanks could hold that. You have to account for the energy used to create the HHO.

Interesting. Where are you getting the extra heat?
================================================== ========

I'm so glad Gus posted to this thread. He had so much to add.

And once again I as a "person" get judged,

From Gus,
"That you *may* have something of actual value to offer here (though nothing yet) is the ONLY thing that has kept me from taking the steps to have your rude ass banned."

But he refuses to look back to see what caused my "re-action" as the tension started here.

Post #12-"I guess I understand Faraday's law a little different than you do. Watts are not in my book a good measure just like MMW is also not the best measure."

Then giving me an article to read. This is insulting and insinuating that I don't understand the basics of HHO. I was asking for the amount of watts being used for the project. And I stated that,

Post #14-"Now can we please return to my question. Who hear has the best generator. I don't not mean who has the biggest. I mean who has the most HHO generated output per/watt of electricity."

Post 14 and 15 I posted the information that was asked.

And yes in post 16 I gave mygold a jab back for his comment toward "Me" not my idea. So I don't give a s##t if you like it or not.

Post 16#-"I commend you on your cut and paste abilities and I'm not arguing the science."

Post #18- "Well I guess you think HHO is made by watts and not amps. It is you that do not understand how HHO is made and not me not knowing how my electric bill is calculated."

Show me where I said that.

Post #18- " I at least know where to get the right information and from someone that I personally know. "

Once again insinuating my information is wrong. Nothing I have given is wrong.

And the whole thing was a misunderstanding of the initial question. Mygold has excelent information and is very helpful with his posts. My approach was from a cost basis. Mygold was from science.

As for Gus, I could care less what you have to say if you have nothing to add to the topic. Please stick to the topic.

Thank you
Mike

[keiththevp]

Cool thought Keith. It would be like a HHO light bulb. How would you get more heat out then you input? That would be my question. If I put a HHO flame on a needle point I burn through the surface in seconds. If I pick a number 500 BTUs, that is used. OK, so if I disperse it over a surface of 1 square foot and use it as an exchanger I still only have 500 BTUs for heat.

A heat pump uses electric for its power and heats or cools. It delivers up to 5 times the BTUs as an electric heater because it causes a change in state of the heating medium.

Are you planning on a change of state in the object? If you cause a pressure increase you create heat. Would there be a pressure increase inside or would it stay neutral? You could go from a vacuum to 3000 psi. Tanks could hold that. You have to account for the energy used to create the HHO.

Interesting. Where are you getting the extra heat?

Thank you
Mike

To be honest I am not sure .... it was just an idea and at the moment, being in the suburbs, not one I can test if the sphere blows up. I have already had my fair share of accidents over the years with HHO and I have a great deal of respect for it's explosive power when confined!! But my thinking was that hho reacts differently to every material you apply the flame to. Some times the flame is only a couple hundred degrees and sometimes it is a couple thousand degrees. It will also burn underwater with the proper shielding. So even if you didn't enclose it I still believe there is a material out there that you can apply the flame to and get more heat out of it then a conventional electric heater. The idea of a sphere was for the purpose of transferring the heat to the oil so that you do not burn through it with the flame, but rather just heat the whole sphere. This would also depend on what the sphere was made of and how much gas you use. If you have ever played around with an HHO torch you can heat a large piece of metal to glowing red without burning through it.

If that is because of a reaction between the flame and the media, or the media changing state well again I am not sure. This is definitely not my field of expertise. I am better at the electronics and mechanical side of things.

There is a guy on YouTube that did a lot of these and other heater tests a few years ago but I have not heard anything from him since. If you check out his videos it may help spark some ideas!!

Good Luck with your heater!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBedYfpu3Vc