kilowatt vs. BTU

[madman]

I am trying to figure out if a hho heating system could be built to be more

cost efectiive than gas or electric. System would be run on 110 or 220 mains,transformed and rectified to 12 volt dc.

would use a high eficient high output unit like a unipolar bio beast. Would also use a high eficienf heat exchanger .

Lets say I have a space heater that ia 720 watts and it produces 5000 btu. Now lets say I have a hho heater that is 720 watts (60 amp at 12 volts) and produces 4 LPM of gas.

Here is the question. How many btu can 4 lpm of gas produce? If you believe the scammers it is 30-40-50,000.

Does anyone believe hho can outperform ng or electric? Does anyone have experience with a heat exchanger that really works?

Would love to try this in my 2 car garage, no heat out there. I am in the middle of a 49 plate unipolar system now.

[myoldyourgold]

I am trying to figure out if a hho heating system could be built to be more

cost efectiive than gas or electric. System would be run on 110 or 220 mains,transformed and rectified to 12 volt dc.

would use a high eficient high output unit like a unipolar bio beast. Would also use a high eficienf heat exchanger .

Lets say I have a space heater that ia 720 watts and it produces 5000 btu. Now lets say I have a hho heater that is 720 watts (60 amp at 12 volts) and produces 4 LPM of gas.

Here is the question. How many btu can 4 lpm of gas produce? If you believe the scammers it is 30-40-50,000.

Does anyone believe hho can outperform ng or electric? Does anyone have experience with a heat exchanger that really works?

Would love to try this in my 2 car garage, no heat out there. I am in the middle of a 49 plate unipolar system now.

As far as I can tell it has not been done. It has to do with the heat exchanger as well as the problem of getting more energy out than you put in. The only way I see it might be possible is with some kind of exotic heat exchanger using the unusual characteristics of HHO's flame was invented. It would be an invention that would be worth something if it could be made to work. So far it has been a loosing battle. Stan Myers brother started down this road many years ago and still has not come up with a working prototype for pier review even though there has been some patents filed. All others like the space heater form the guys in Oregon that was recently placed in the public domain would have been in full production and selling like hot cakes if it was something that was really better than a simple electric heater. They are trying to cash in on selling the plans and a heat exchanger. You might be able to buy a complete heater from then too.

[madman]

I agree that for this to work one will need a heat exchanger that performs to a degree that makes it worth while. It is kind a like dollar per mile. Comparing a gas to a disel car. The cost of the fuels is different so you just can not compare MPG. It is the same with heat. It would be dollar per BTU. Just like burning gasoline in a car, heating with propane,ng,fuel oil, or electric is only so efficient. Since hydroxy gas burns VERY hot it seems that it would be a better fuel for heat. As far as not being able to get more energy out than you put in is how you look at it. It is all about EFFIENCY. Like a dry cell on a car, it cost a small bit of horsepower to run the alt. BUT the car has a gain of 10 mpg.because the engine is more efficient and thus it can use less gasoline while operating at the same performance . With a hho heating system it is a little diff. because it will be a stand alone system using 100 percent of the fuel. So if I build a system that produces 30 percent more btu per dollar did I get free energy? No I just have a more cost effective heater. Do I think this is possible? I do but I have no education in mechanical engineering. As far as the heat exchanger I think tweaking a few of the variables such as amount of gas,pressure of gas, quantity of nozzles, orficis dia, etc. it will work. Anybdy out there done any tweaking?

[mikeinri]

I am trying to figure out if a hho heating system could be built to be more

cost efectiive than gas or electric. System would be run on 110 or 220 mains,transformed and rectified to 12 volt dc.

would use a high eficient high output unit like a unipolar bio beast. Would also use a high eficienf heat exchanger .

Lets say I have a space heater that ia 720 watts and it produces 5000 btu. Now lets say I have a hho heater that is 720 watts (60 amp at 12 volts) and produces 4 LPM of gas.

Here is the question. How many btu can 4 lpm of gas produce? If you believe the scammers it is 30-40-50,000.

Does anyone believe hho can outperform ng or electric? Does anyone have experience with a heat exchanger that really works?

Would love to try this in my 2 car garage, no heat out there. I am in the middle of a 49 plate unipolar system now.

You are only talking about 4000-6000 BTU output with that size heater. There is no use in trying to make one that size when you can get the same thing with a $35 electric space heater.

If someone has a unit that has an output of 8-10LPM with the same watt input I'll buy it from them. You need that much production in order to make the heater worth while.

[myoldyourgold]

Maximum one could make with 52 amps (according to Faraday) at 13.8 volts if you had a reactor that was 100% efficient at 1013.25 barometric pressure and 110ºF would be 10.08 LPM. It should be very possible to make 8 LPM in fact I know it is possible.

[mikeinri]

Maximum one could make with 52 amps (according to Faraday) at 13.8 volts if you had a reactor that was 100% efficient at 1013.25 barometric pressure and 110ºF would be 10.08 LPM. It should be very possible to make 8 LPM in fact I know it is possible.

Who here has a reactor even close to that? Because, I can make us rich in a year.
650 watts of power at 120v or what ever converted power you prefer and produce 8+LPM.

So you have apples to apples I suggest you use a house outlet (with an amp meter) and convert the output to DC. (under 6 amps)

[myoldyourgold]

Who here has a reactor even close to that? Because, I can make us rich in a year.
650 watts of power at 120v or what ever converted power you prefer and produce 8+LPM.

So you have apples to apples I suggest you use a house outlet (with an amp meter) and convert the output to DC. (under 6 amps)

Not many that is for sure. But it is possible. I have no idea what you are getting at though. Now its 650 watts to make 8 LPM. If you use the same reactor that I referenced in my post then you would be making 8 LPM at 47 amps which is about 88% efficient according to Faraday in stead of 100%.

Not adjusted for barometric pressure or temperature Faraday's max is 11.4 MLPM per amp per square inch per cell. There is no mystery in how water is split using brute force or what is called Faraday's method. Using other energy from other sources changes everything.

[madman]

You are only talking about 4000-6000 BTU output with that size heater. There is no use in trying to make one that size when you can get the same thing with a $35 electric space heater.

If someone has a unit that has an output of 8-10LPM with the same watt input I'll buy it from them. You need that much production in order to make the heater worth while.

How are you computing LPM to btu? More importantly I am looking for ideas to exchange the flame(heat) of the hho to becone a simple space heater.

1) Blast several nozzles of flame onto ceramic plates and blow air across them?

2) Heat 55 gallons of liquid( h2o, oil, ? ) and run thru copper pipes in a base board configuration?

3) Heat water to create steam and pipe it thru an old fashioned cast iron radiator.?

I can build a bigger reactor for more LPM. Acually it is easier and cheaper to use straight 110 0r 220 just match plate count to get 2 volts per cell. More volts, more amps, more steel, is more production.

This thread is NOT about gas production or the EFICIENCY of the reactors( kinda). IT IS about the VALUE of traditional heating vs. HHO heating.

It is like dollars per mile not MPG. I want to know BTU per dollar. If I spend $1 on electic for heat and I spend $1 on electric for hho production for heat which one gives me more bang for my buck?

Lets all get together on this one . If we can increase our mileage I would think we could improve on the heating also. I do not know about you guys but a few bucks saved means an upgrade for me like going from stag to flat tire.

[myoldyourgold]

Lets all get together on this one . If we can increase our mileage I would think we could improve on the heating also. I do not know about you guys but a few bucks saved means an upgrade for me like going from stag to flat tire.

I agree. Here is a start:



http://www.google.com/patents/US4389981

http://free-energy-info.co.uk/index.html

[mikeinri]

[QUOTE=myoldyourgold;48362] Now its 650 watts to make 8 LPM. If you use the same reactor that I referenced in my post then you would be making 8 LPM at 47 amps which is about 88% efficient according to Faraday in stead of 100%.
QUOTE]

It’s not a question of "Now" because you gave me those numbers. I didn't change anything.

I'm getting the watts by using a simple electrical formula. Then I'm giving the watts right back to you and I'm asking you to use that as a baseline.

It seems like people have been getting stuck on the power equation. Can't see the trees for the forest. I don't care about the perfect equation and 100% efficiency when it's not realistic. Every time you flash amp and flow numbers at me I'm converting it to watts (power) and BTUs (energy).

I'm just trying to approach this from a different angle. I hope this helps.