HHO System for a 5.4 Liter BMW V12

[madman]

Spencer,

I noticed you mentioned maybe going with a unipolar drycell. For your application esp. if size in engine compartment will be tight a more standard BIPOLAR reactor will work just fine. From personal experience I can tell you the unipolar is VERY difficult, more $, more time for marginal gains in eff. and production.

You will read where many say .5 amps per active sq.inch of plate area. Or more amps will harm the steel. IF you have your 316l ss plates media blasted you can raise the number to say .75 amps per sq. inch. SO a single stack 6 or 7 cells of suficient size should give you the half littre of gas per littre of engine size plus more (if needed). Better to have and need not.

I always recomend tackling one component at atime. If you search you can usually find what you need. But if you need help with conflicting info. or get confussed just ask.

By the way COOL CAR. I have been saving for a VW rail job.

Madman

[sbeckman7]

Spencer,

I noticed you mentioned maybe going with a unipolar drycell. For your application esp. if size in engine compartment will be tight a more standard BIPOLAR reactor will work just fine. From personal experience I can tell you the unipolar is VERY difficult, more $, more time for marginal gains in eff. and production.

You will read where many say .5 amps per active sq.inch of plate area. Or more amps will harm the steel. IF you have your 316l ss plates media blasted you can raise the number to say .75 amps per sq. inch. SO a single stack 6 or 7 cells of suficient size should give you the half littre of gas per littre of engine size plus more (if needed). Better to have and need not.

I always recomend tackling one component at atime. If you search you can usually find what you need. But if you need help with conflicting info. or get confussed just ask.

By the way COOL CAR. I have been saving for a VW rail job.

Madman

Thanks a lot for the tip. After reading that, I'm happy to go with a bipolar setup. Spacing won't be an issue but the more cost effective system is usually the better one in my book So in order to successfully inject more HHO into the engine I would need more air and fuel as well? Can HHO substitute for air or is it merely a catalyst?

[myoldyourgold]

Thanks a lot for the tip. After reading that, I'm happy to go with a bipolar setup. Spacing won't be an issue but the more cost effective system is usually the better one in my book So in order to successfully inject more HHO into the engine I would need more air and fuel as well? Can HHO substitute for air or is it merely a catalyst?
Reply With Quote

Remember the O and the H in HHO are just the right amount for a perfect burn so there should be no extra O. What type of fuel management system are you going to use?

[sbeckman7]

Remember the O and the H in HHO are just the right amount for a perfect burn so there should be no extra O. What type of fuel management system are you going to use?

Welll im thinking of using either megasquirt or something more sophisticated like Haltec. Whatever it is I'll have full control. However, your statement confused me a bit regarding the HHO. If it requires the right amount for a perfect burn, why do we need to add air at all? And why couldn't we add as much as we could make and spray more fuel into the cylinders to compensate?

[myoldyourgold]

why couldn't we add as much as we could make and spray more fuel into the cylinders to compensate?

Unless you are trying to run the vehicle on HHO alone you will need air. All the O will be needed to burn the H and if there is additional fuel it needs O to burn. Not only that there is a lot of nitrogen in the air and that is a player in this game too. Good choices as far as fuel management. With full control you should be able to get the max out of everything. This is a big and complicated project. Looking good so far!! Keep it up.

[BioFarmer93]

Welll im thinking of using either megasquirt or something more sophisticated like Haltec. Whatever it is I'll have full control. However, your statement confused me a bit regarding the HHO. If it requires the right amount for a perfect burn, why do we need to add air at all? And why couldn't we add as much as we could make and spray more fuel into the cylinders to compensate?

Sbeckman7,
What myoldyourgold means is that there is just enough O produced when you make HHO to burn the amount of H produced, perfectly. The O necessary to burn the gasoline must come from your intake air as usual.

[madman]

Spencer,

I may not be able to explain the exact technical, scientific explanation of how or why HHO works but here is the basic. You can say HHO is a fuel but we do not use it like that. Yes we burn (ignite) it but the amount we use is like a grain of sand in a sand box. Just look at the humungus amounts of air a ICE takes in everyt second and then look at the tiny amount of hho produced for a booster on a car, a couple of littres per MINUTE. Production is usually measured in LPM.

Now that little bit of HHO can create a VERY LARGE gain in your MPG. That amount depends on a lot of diff. factors. So besides saying HHO has some very unusually properties the nut is when it is ignited in the cumbustion chamber it helps to make the gas or disel burn more completly and or eficiently. Now that does not mean more MPG, but it will give you more power.

To get better mileage you must REDUCE the amount of fuel that is going to your fuel delivery system. AFR air fuel ratio needs to be ajusted BUT BE CAREFUL not to go to lean or engine will burn up. I think you mentioned you will not have all the computer junk on your build . That will make things MUCH MUCH eaiser to tune the HHO to the engine.

I quit working on cars a long time ago. Fortunately I have a good friend that is very good at it. I may be old school but there are several gear heads that can chime in here and give you more tech. help/ info.

Hope this helps,

Madman

[sbeckman7]

Thanks for the responses everyone, I get it now I am hoping to be able to have 2 modes in my Engine Management configuration:

1. High Mileage: Obviously lean fuel mixture with HHO supplement
2. High Power: Am I correct in stating that most members on this forum run an HHO system for the first reason, and not to gain power? I would like to see what sort of gains can be had, hopefully just by adding HHO to the normal fuel amount? Does this seem like the correct way to approach it?

Also this may be a stupid question, but does the amount of HHO produced vary with the engine speed or is it constant? I would think (and hope) that the faster the alternator spins, the more HHO is produced.

Also I'm hoping, like most, to eventually be able to run the car entirely on HHO... what kind of electrical output would I need for that? An extension cord running to the nearest power line? Is there an equation one can use to find this number? Knowing how to get the number seems just as important as the number itself.

Spence

[myoldyourgold]

With simple brute force electrolysis most gains in an already efficient engine are a result of a lean fuel mixture. Remember unburnt fuel is 3% or less in most engines today or they will not pass smog. When you lean the fuel mixture out in an ICE the burn rate slows down the leaner it goes resulting in not enough time to burn all the fuel in the power stroke, making excess heat, less HP, and causes the engine to miss and over heat. The supplementation of HHO increases the combustion speed and extends the equivalence ratio lean-limit of the mixture reducing the misfiring and excess heat. The savings without leaning things out is hit and miss depending on how efficient/inefficient the engine is and your driving style. I have always been very skeptical of large gains with out leaning out the fuel. When you understand exactly what is happening, then you know that without leaning out the fuel the gains are hit and miss and marginal at best. The exceptions are almost unexplainable or more likely just fiction. With a fuel management system where you have complete control and know how to use it, will result in you being able to get the maximum possible gains and still have good HP. It takes a lot more HHO than most snake oil sales men are saying when you have control of the fuel system. Small amounts of HHO are only relevant when you have no or limited control of the fuel mixture and timing.

[sbeckman7]

With simple brute force electrolysis most gains in an already efficient engine are a result of a lean fuel mixture. Remember unburnt fuel is 3% or less in most engines today or they will not pass smog. When you lean the fuel mixture out in an ICE the burn rate slows down the leaner it goes resulting in not enough time to burn all the fuel in the power stroke, making excess heat, less HP, and causes the engine to miss and over heat. The supplementation of HHO increases the combustion speed and extends the equivalence ratio lean-limit of the mixture reducing the misfiring and excess heat. The savings without leaning things out is hit and miss depending on how efficient/inefficient the engine is and your driving style. I have always been very skeptical of large gains with out leaning out the fuel. When you understand exactly what is happening, then you know that without leaning out the fuel the gains are hit and miss and marginal at best. The exceptions are almost unexplainable or more likely just fiction. With a fuel management system where you have complete control and know how to use it, will result in you being able to get the maximum possible gains and still have good HP. It takes a lot more HHO than most snake oil sales men are saying when you have control of the fuel system. Small amounts of HHO are only relevant when you have no or limited control of the fuel mixture and timing.

So you believe that with a fully programable ECU I will be able to inject much more HHO into the system and achieve better gains?