My First Build

[danser75]

Well Gus it wa sa good thing I heeded your warning. I filled with distilled water to check for leaks and before I could get a half gallon in it was leaking out

But it also proved that my drain works

I looked into the problem and it that I used the wrong type of pipe. I didnt do any research on pvc pipe before the build but it turns out they make cellcore or foam core pipe and solid pvc pipe. and the cellcore looks exactly the same until you look really close at the cut edge of it. it is a thin layer of pvc then foam then a thin layer of pvc. I never noticed a differance. But the foamcore will not seal the threads

So its back to the drawing board and I have now decided to just do a 18 inch piece of 6 inch and put the hose barbs in the end caps instead of the side of the pipe. One end will be in and the other will be out.

I will post pics when it is done. But let this be a word of warning. If you plan to tap the side of the pipe, Look at the type of pipe. It seems to show up at about the 3 inch and above pipe. Also I will have to totally remove the unit and install new hoses to accomidate a new pipe I think. This will not be a fun or easy fix. I hate these kinda problems.

But at least it was just water and for that a big THANK YOU GUS. I was in such a hurry to see it up and going I have the mixture of lye and distilled ready to put in and I was planning to fill with it once I got the flash arresters in.

[aceras624]

DAMN! hoses much?! Im concerned about the plumbing though. It looks like you tapped round PVC pipe. Did you glue the fittings in or something? I would have thought that would leak?

[danser75]

I have successfully tapped through the side of solid pvc pipe in the past on an rov i built a few years back. But yes this tank leaks due to the fact it is a foam core pipe. I am building a whole new type of tank to replace that one in the next week. I will post new pics when its done.

Also I have so many hoses because i wanted to try haveing no restriction on the cells for gas to back up. I wanted to try to avoid any aresa that might bring down production. Also it forces all the current through the plates and this way some doesnt get lost in the electrolyte.

[aceras624]

current gets "lost in the electrolyte"?

[danser75]

Well not really lost but just used to create heat instead of gas. That's why the wet cells are less efficient than the dry cells are. But in looking at my setup I am going to try to see what resistance the electrolyte has so I can determine what distance the hoses need to be so the current doesn't follow the hoses instead of the plates. So I am going to do a small setup filled with electrolyte and then measure the resistance, Then I am going to setup a way to measure the resistance of just the electrolyte at a couple given distances.

This is all because of the fact that electricity will follow the path of least resistance and therefore will try to go any way it can to avoid anything that will stop it. I am trying to get this unit as efficient as possible. Which is why I am going to what seems like extremes on alot of the pieces and parts of this. It is really no more than a normal unipolar build with a few more tweaks and a fair amount of my own personal flair

[aceras624]

Well not really lost but just used to create heat instead of gas. That's why the wet cells are less efficient than the dry cells are. But in looking at my setup I am going to try to see what resistance the electrolyte has so I can determine what distance the hoses need to be so the current doesn't follow the hoses instead of the plates. So I am going to do a small setup filled with electrolyte and then measure the resistance, Then I am going to setup a way to measure the resistance of just the electrolyte at a couple given distances.

This is all because of the fact that electricity will follow the path of least resistance and therefore will try to go any way it can to avoid anything that will stop it. I am trying to get this unit as efficient as possible. Which is why I am going to what seems like extremes on alot of the pieces and parts of this. It is really no more than a normal unipolar build with a few more tweaks and a fair amount of my own personal flair

correct me if im wrong, but isnt heat purely an issue with voltage?

also wet cells are less efficient because of the current they leach from their edges

I dont see the point in measuring the resistance as since the electrons in the steel are SOOO much closer together than the electrolyte the current will ALWAYS go directly through from plate to plate and never travel through hoses... i think

anyone smarter than me wanna chime in here. Gold? Bio?

[myoldyourgold]

Dancer75, How are you going to measure the resistance of the electrolyte? There is a method using AC but even that has problems if I remember. Current leakage in a unipolar reactor is the least of your worries. Even some gaps of electrolyte going out the exit tubes will stop it. The best is just to have HHO and moisture and not a steady stream of electrolyte. That is ideal though. You are right the farther it has to travel the less chance it will make it. Remember electrolyte is a great conductor though especially if it is at max strength.

[BioFarmer93]

correct me if im wrong, but isnt heat purely an issue with voltage?

also wet cells are less efficient because of the current they leach from their edges

I dont see the point in measuring the resistance as since the electrons in the steel are SOOO much closer together than the electrolyte the current will ALWAYS go directly through from plate to plate and never travel through hoses... i think

anyone smarter than me wanna chime in here. Gold? Bio?

isnt heat purely an issue with voltage?

Yes, and no.. Say you have a 5 cell reactor (bipolar dry cell) running at 10V & 10A - 100watts. It's going to run (if the area's right!) right around 100°F, maybe a tad warmer. Now if you bump the voltage up by a factor of 100, bump the amperage down by a factor of 100 (1000V @ 0.1A) you may get some production, but you won't get any heat, or 10,000V @ 0.01A.. Both of those are still 100 watts, but by virtue of some vague law of electrickery that I'm at a complete loss to remember and don't feel like looking up, that's the way it works.

also wet cells are less efficient because of the current they leach from their edges

True: In two different ways. If gas and equalization hole edges are not Weldon treated then current likes to jump through the hole from one side of a bipolar plate to the other side of the same plate because that's the shortest distance to the strongest source of opposite polarity. There is also, to a lesser degree, current trying to make it's way all the way through a stack from one end to the other seeking the source of strongest opposite polarity potential.

I dont see the point in measuring the resistance as since the electrons in the steel are SOOO much closer together than the electrolyte the current will ALWAYS go directly through from plate to plate and never travel through hoses... i think

Myoldyourgold has done a myriad of rather well documented (for him!) experiments that show that this just is not the case. Visualize it- any time there is any path of conductivity available, a current will seek its opposite polarity potential, it's as bound by that law as we are by gravity.

[aceras624]

thanks for the input bio I knew youd have something good to say since this is a unipolar build butt kissing aside, the resistance of the steel is less than that of the electrolyte do to the electrons being closer together in metals than in liquids right? If thats the case, why is there any concern that current would go in the opposite direction through electrolyte instead of through the steel plate? hmm i was actually thinking of a bipolar cell when i was just typing but I think its even more relevant for a unipolar build because of the +-+-+- etc

[BioFarmer93]

aceras624 thanks for the input bio I knew youd have something good to say since this is a unipolar build butt kissing aside, the resistance of the steel is less than that of the electrolyte do to the electrons being closer together in metals than in liquids right? If thats the case, why is there any concern that current would go in the opposite direction through electrolyte instead of through the steel plate? hmm i was actually thinking of a bipolar cell when i was just typing but I think its even more relevant for a unipolar build because of the +-+-+- etc

Ace,
Believe it or not it is actually less relevant in a well designed unipolar build because the arrangement is [+-+-+-+] [+-+-+-+] [+-+-+-+] [+-+-+-+].. and on & on. There is always going to be an opposite polarity plate of greater potential closer than the path up through hoses, through an electrolyte reservoir, back down another hose- to a weaker potential. This absolutely does not preclude the fact that any path between opposite potentials of any strength will at least have micro-currents running through them though. The idea is, through good design, make those unavoidable paths as highly resistant to current travel as practicable.
As for the electrons being closer in steel than in electrolyte- I really don't know.. I do know that 316L s.s. is a rather high resistance metal and 28% KOH e-lyte mix is a low resistance liquid, but to say that the electrons are closer in one than the other seems like it might depend on the mass of each ones conductive path a good bit as well. One of those thought experiments that I hire Carter for.. -Or were you referring to the electrons of the atoms that make up the molecules of the two different materials?
Current going the "opposite" direction- I'm having a lot of trouble trying to visualize a scenario that that could happen in- did you have a specific example in mind?