A New Feul useage control method!?!

[sbeckman7]

The argument that changing the fuel pump voltage won't change overall pressure unless supply is less than demand makes sense to me as well. The fuel pump doesn't supply the fuel pressure, the pressure regulator does. So if you were to remove the pressure regulator and replace its function by an adjustable fuel pump, I could see that working better. Of course I havent tried anything so I'd be interested in the actual test results as well.

[myoldyourgold]

What you want to change is the amount, volume of fuel being sprayed not the pressure. In closed loop the ECU uses the information from the sensors to make the necessary changes. If it get a lean signal if widens the pulse and the opposite if it is rich. Closed loop means it reacts to what the last measurement did. In open loop it follows a set map. So any change you do to the fuel system the ECU will react to within its limits or goes to open loop unless you interrupt the signal and send a signal that makes it do what you want it to. It is that simple. I still do not see how the pump can fool the ECU.

[Weapon_R]

No dyno just a set of rollers at a friendly smog station that I can use free with his sniffer. I am afraid I am very old school and tune by ear and trial and error with help from some propriety information. There are as you said many other methods but I have found by combining them you get mega returns. Just taping all major current cables with aluminum tape in a vehicle gives a measurable gain by blocking magnet fields interacting with each other. Would not have believed it if I had not tested it. The list is quite long.

The clue in water injection for maximum results is vapor as you stated but more than that is ionized vapor. That is why I mentioned I am working on a better water injection system than is available. So little time. Today is my day off to get my thoughts back on track but have ended up on the computer. LOL

There is nothing impressive about my work but have had a lot of help by people who are much smarter than I am!! People like Gus (Bio) has been extremely helpful to correct me when I am headed in the wrong direction!! and help in a lot of other areas too. Can not thank him enough. There are a number of people who have tested various things for me and saved me a lot of time and I thank them too. In the electronic area I must thank hhoelectronics. An excellent knowledgeable and trustworthy real gentleman!! So the list goes on and on. The only reason it might be impressive is because of all the help.



I use an Exhaust Temp gauge only for tuning. There will not be any fast burn if the mixture is lean enough and the right amount of HHO is present. The burn rate comes back to a normal burn rate and is what tuning is all about. Unfortunately this is different on every vehicle and I am working on how to get it right with just simple little things. Not there yet. Still a lot of work to do and so little time. It will be a while before I have it all nailed down. I use my ear and feel the loss or gain in HP/performance and then look at what the sniffer is reading. Then based on some propriety information make the right adjustments either adding more fuel or less and adjusting the timing to get it right. This same information gives me a starting safe point. This is why you need to have good control. It is not necessary to have compete control unless you want the last few drops out of things. That is at least what I have experienced in my testing.

myoldyourgold

Right again. I think I had stated this before in a previous post. When fuel is leaned to a point 22:1 of there about the exhaust temp goes down. Mixture becomes harder to ignite and power falls off.
EGT sensor is all you real need to do these experiments. It will at the very least prevent engine melt down.

[Weapon_R]

What you want to change is the amount, volume of fuel being sprayed not the pressure. In closed loop the ECU uses the information from the sensors to make the necessary changes. If it get a lean signal if widens the pulse and the opposite if it is rich. Closed loop means it reacts to what the last measurement did. In open loop it follows a set map. So any change you do to the fuel system the ECU will react to within its limits or goes to open loop unless you interrupt the signal and send a signal that makes it do what you want it to. It is that simple. I still do not see how the pump can fool the ECU.

Computer can only react within limits. Also once the computer does not go into limp mode on sensor failure all is required is to disable the sensor and ignore cel.

[Weapon_R]

The argument that changing the fuel pump voltage won't change overall pressure unless supply is less than demand makes sense to me as well. The fuel pump doesn't supply the fuel pressure, the pressure regulator does. So if you were to remove the pressure regulator and replace its function by an adjustable fuel pump, I could see that working better. Of course I havent tried anything so I'd be interested in the actual test results as well.

Changing pump voltage will lower pressure below that which the regulator is designed to operate. Therefore disabling the fuel pressure regulator.
Normally fuel pump generates a higher pressure than is required and the fuel pressure regulator lowers the pressure to the required amount.
Adjustment can also be made with an adjustable fuel pressure regulator.

[Madsceintist]

Roland;
So is your constant attention with your fuel pump controls due to you trying to get max MPG?
In other words if you were content with 25-40% MPG improvement, could the fuel pump mod be a hands off/set it & forget it mod ?

Most of the attention is due to having to alter the voltage. Uphill or passing would need an increase to 6.5 to 7.8 volts. Some level or near level inclines could use 4.55 volts(i found this to be the least i could keep the car running with minimum load), downhill I could shut the pump off. The car would idle even with using the cruise control at 70 mph(my theory on this is that the transmission convertor was assisting the engine by the stall speed). As the car started to take on a load it would shutter and near stall(so back to 4.55 volts). When i was driving on city highways where there were traffic lights i had to stay around 9.7 to take off from still. One hill on the interstate i had to go to a full voltage around 13.7-14.3 volts(system charging). With my scanner hooked up i could see when i was charging or not, voltage would vary slightly. As well, watching the o2 sensors was incredible! To see bank 1 running at 0 to 40 ppm and bank 2 at flat 0 ppm, SWEET. THIS WAS WITH NO EFIE OR PWM !!!! True o2 voltage and measurements.
To answer your question; Hands off mod. Maybe, if a tps-pwm was integrated to adapt to load demand. Basically you need the fuel pump to respond to demand but only when the load is TRULY pulling down on the engine. A lot of the fuel lost is when you apply the gas pedal to accelerate, so cut back on that waste.

[myoldyourgold]

That is very interesting and do not know why you did not throw a code or go into open loop. Was this in an OBD l vehicle or your 97 suburban?

[Madsceintist]

The Suburb.(obd II) only used HHO on the way back from New York. I didn't have the pump switches and such on it. The Cavalier light came on twice then off after each start for lean bank 1, catalyst efficiency came up once. By the end of the trip the computer kept the code for lean since it was set a third time. Clearing the code each time to see what would return, only lean bank 1. Regardless i continually had a voltage and ppm count on the o2's, and that proved to me the best advantage to all of this. Extremely low emissions.

[myoldyourgold]

Thank you Sir, that clears things up for me. Excellent work.

[Madsceintist]

Since studying and using HHO, I've only used F.I. engines that control timing for spark and fuel. The Toyota that I have to work with has a distributor so I can have the benefit of physically moving the timing to find THE SPOT! Its still fuel injected and I think that's a major benefit. I look forward to this endeavor.
What i think that has help me along with the HHO, is that I've worked on so many engines internally, hot rodded, raced and restored cars that the basics are surpassed by far. I'm not a wiz at computers, but can take one apart and repair it. Programming is my short coming! I have trouble downloading things!
I have a 1970 F-100, carbureted 2 barrel, I rebuilt a 302 hydraulic roller motor from a 1989 Lincoln Mark VII, upgraded the truck with the serpentine belt drive, front disk brakes added power brake booster, added power steering, one piece aluminum drive shaft, 1979 9 inch rear end, Took out the 3 speed and replaced that with a 4 speed toploader transmission. All of this has been done for years, but I'll add power windows and a/c soon.
Point is I rebuilt the carburetor, distributor and made some adjustments to run really good. It's very strong! Without HHO ever being installed on this truck i get around 19 mpg, and i pull a twin axle car trailer behind it. I like that i have the control of fuel mixture with a carb. I think it would possibly be a better way to go with just using HHO as assistance on a carb. Not that i don't like what I've gotten. Just theory for now.
I've been gathering old electronics of sorts to dismantle for some of the components that I think I'll need for the Toyota's system. Don't know that I can share much on that until I have some Progress though.