discouraged

[grimr27]

hey i dont know wear you live but coke cans and scrap metel bring needed $ for your project. its also good for the environment..

[Ronjinsan]

As much as i admire people like zerofossilfuels dedication he does seem to get nowhere fast. My moto is get it going first. These guys spend heaps of money testing futile theories and wasting oodles of fuel saving time. Maybe they should just go into movie making full time. If your criteria is lack of funds then dont go to youtube. Build it simple but dont expect too much...later when you are sure...expect a lot! So spake Zarathustra

[Stratous]

I am sure some designs are better than others but honestly it takes time to figure that out. I use the design of 4 cells in one container, each cell is -++-. At 30 amps I am creating 1.5 liters per minute with this set up. Heat is a factor for me, so I use a cooling line. The average temperature after 2 hours is about 140 degrees. The cell is relatively large at 8" x8" x 6", but it does what it supposed to do. There are pictures in this thread. http://www.hhoforums.com/showthread.php?t=40&page=2

[doug2168]

Why dont you use a different approach to putting your plates together! I use hard rubber spacers for my gaps but I dont bolt my plates together.

Attachment 64

I use this config with SS bolts and nuts at the terminals and cable ties to hold the plates together (Blue lines) Dont need plastic bolts and nuts!

while driving home this afternoon i was thinking about the tywraping of the plates and rubber washers. i was wondering if they move and shift from vibration???

[doug2168]

after driving with my booster for one week:

1) my mpg didn't change.
2) sodium hydroxide made a difference in the color of the electrolyte
3) i noticed the bubbler water gets sucked into the engine gradually and over time
4) wrapping my o2 sensors in tin foil made no difference either

through reading many different docs i've come to understand some things and i'm wondering if i'm on the right track...

1) my mpg hasn't changed because using hho makes the computer on my car think we're now running lean and it dumps more fuel which cancels out any gain i may get. an o2 extender on each sensor may help but so may an efie. which is better?
2) if i was using a different electrolyte, one that had sodium nitrate in it, and i'm now using 100% sodium hydroxide, did i ruin my plates with the other stuff? smacks doc says i probably did but i have not noticed a change in output or current draw.
3) i haven't come across a reason or solution for the bubbler water getting sucked into the intake. all i've done with the output tube from the booster is run it to just under/before the aircleaner in the air inlet duct.

again my setup is like this:

2005 honda civic
scaled down smacks booster 3" pvc 12" long
plates are unknown quality stainless steel from old hard drives 3" long x 2.5" wide and arranged like this: +nn-nn+
using tap water till today and 100% sodium hydroxide
o2 sensors wrapped in tin foil with about 12 layers each
14 volts to booster drawing 5 amps cold and 15 amps hot

oh, and one last question:

how long does it usually take for a booster to heat up? i asl this because this is what i've noticed....i start off at ambient temp in the morning. in other words i set my electrolyte the night before and drive into work the next morning. the current draw would be 5 amps with cold tap water and 1/2 tablespoon electrolyte. in the morning everything is the same as far as hho output and current draw. on the way to work the current draw goes up slightly and upon arrival to work, a one hour trip, the booster has gotten just luke warm. as the day heats up, obviously the booster does too and current draw goes up also. on the way home i've noticed the draw triples what it was the night before so 5 amps is now 15 amps. by the time i get home my booster is red hot and bubbler almost empty. are these things mentioned above due to using tap water, lacking the 4 other plates people have suggested and also because of the heat of the day? someone mentioned that pvc doesn't conduct heat very well. is this also another cause?

i'd really like to get more mpg out of my car, help the environment and learn ALL i can from this experience. still one of my problems is lack of funds and this has been a cause of my project taking so long.

i do appreciate the forum being here and people helping me along the way. i intend to add the 4 other plates later today and tywrap them together. i will also be going grocery shopping and will pick up a couple gallons of distilled water.

i'm also thinking about drilling a hole close to the throttle body in my air ducts if this will help and getting a "T" fitting for my pcv system because i've noticed anyone that has reported huge gains in mpg has hho ported to these two places. what does anyone have to say about this? i'm interested.

thx again!

[Stratous]

I am not certain why your not seeing any gains, I do know that your bubbler shouldnt be empty, no water from the bubbler should get sucked into the engine. If anything, your bubbler should have more water in it than what it started with due to moisture from the generator making its way to the bubbler. Can you post pictures of your setup?

[doug2168]

I am not certain why your not seeing any gains, I do know that your bubbler shouldnt be empty, no water from the bubbler should get sucked into the engine. If anything, your bubbler should have more water in it than what it started with due to moisture from the generator making its way to the bubbler. Can you post pictures of your setup?

pics? here ya go....

the plates are crude....i know.
the output tube is snaked all the way up into the air duct and stops at the airfilter.

[Stratous]

Its difficult to say why your not getting gains for sure. perhaps your not producing enough gas, or your ecu is dumping more fuel based on sensed o2? I cant really tell how your bubbler works based on the pictures, but here is a pic of how mine is set up. In this set up the water will not be sucked into the engine unless a vaccume overcomes the bubbler container.

[doug2168]

Its difficult to say why your not getting gains for sure. perhaps your not producing enough gas, or your ecu is dumping more fuel based on sensed o2? I cant really tell how your bubbler works based on the pictures, but here is a pic of how mine is set up. In this set up the water will not be sucked into the engine unless a vaccume overcomes the bubbler container.

what's #12 in your attachment? is it a check valve?

on my setup the bubbler is the larger tube on the side of the unit and hho gas goes in theough the bottom and exits out of the top. i've watched it in operation and what winds up happening is the bubbles stick to the side and burst right at the top. water is than slowly pushed or sucked through the 1/4" angle fitting. this happens no matter how much water is in the bubbler. i'm guessing here but it sounds like and looks like i need to do one of two things.....either design another bubbler or use a check valve.

[Stratous]

A check valve is designed to allow one way travel. It would not prevent water from escaping the bubbler. I would think you need a bigger bubbler. Although, I have seen several designs like the one your using, so it must work as a flashback device at least. The container I use for a bubbler is about 1 liter is size and normally I have to bleed water out every couple days as condensation and water vapor from the generator gather there. The picture I showed you is only represenative of my setup and is not identicle. Perhaps you need to use o2 extenders and run your hho exit tube past the map or maf sensors. If you have a 1/4 or 1/2 vaccume port on your intake, u could inject there. Full manifold vaccum will crush your hho tubing and your current bubbler.