My crossroads !

[Donor]

Well.... my first attempt was a 21 plate with 4 neutrals. At very little KOh I was at 25 amps with 2.30 ltr per minute.

My current advice was a 19 plate with 5 neutrals. I needed to dump alot of KOH to hit the 20 amp margin and making 2 liters in 1.12 minutes.

Which one should I go with ? I see mist vapor from the 19 plate and saw none in my 21 plate.

Seems to me I am better off with the 21 plate.

[hhofox]

Mist vapour?? Are you scrubbing the HHO with a bubbler (with Vinegar, or some neutralizing agent?) Recall that the less neutrals you have, the more heat you get and, in turn, steam can be produced. Maybe that would make up some of the output that you were getting.
Also, check to make sure that your setup is sound and everything is connected properly, with no leaks.
I have a cell with 13 plates (7"x5.5"), in 2 stacks. And it had put out over 2LPM @ about 20 amps easily - I was surprised.
Maybe it has something to do with my design? Anyhow...
What size are your plates? Is your reactor square, tall, or broad?
What size engine/how much HHO are you shooting for btw?

[myoldyourgold]

Something is not right here. Both setups are using about 6.6 amps per cell so each cell should be producing the same amount of gas. The major difference is voltage per cell which depends on your alternator. Some put out 14.3 and with little loss you have 14 volts at the reactor others put 13.8 and with some loss you get 13.2 or so at the reactor. Excess voltage creates heat not more gas. It is the amps that make the gas. There is only 2 cells different which will make some difference but not that much. You see why I think something is wrong. What temperature is the 19 plate reactor running at it should be less than the 21 plate reactor temperature. We need the details of the size of the plates like hhofox asked for.

Moisture in the gas doses not have to show as steam and if there is what looks like steam is possibly cold fog and not steam. Both need to be well cleaned of any electrolyte before going into the engine. All HHO has moisture in it. What goes into the engine must just be clean moisture with no electrolyte to eat the aluminum it passes. Steam is a waste of energy so temperature of the reactor is important. Your reactor does not have to boil to make steam.

[Donor]

Well first off the cell doesn't even get warm , NEVER has. All plates are 6x6 18 gauge 316 s.s. With this now 19 plate the concentrate has at least 4 tablespoons of KOH to hit the 20 amp mark. When i smelled the vapor mist it had an odor to it so i am guessing that is the lye. I took some voltage readings.

The battery power with the jeep running is 14.3 volts

First + is 12.87
first cell neutral goes 10.72, 8.56, 6.42, 4.27, 2.15
second cell neutral goes 10.67 8.53 6.41 4.27 2.14
third cell neutral goes 10.72 8.55 6.42 4.29 2.17

I have a bubbler and even put all my plastic drill bit scraps in it from drilling out all my endplates and still have that vapor coming out of it.

1999 cherokee with the 4.0, i am just under 2lpm with this vapor crap and a ton of KOH, and with the 21 plate I had very little KOH with no vapor and 1ltr in 26 seconds at about 25 amps as well as no heat in the cell.

[myoldyourgold]

OK lets look at this realistically. 4 stacks 21 plates 25 amps 12.87 Volts 2300MLPM. That is 7.15 MMW but Faraday's 100% is only 4.62 MMW or 1.49 LPM. For this to be accurate you can not exceed 4.62MMW/1.49 LPM. There is either a lot of moisture or the measurement was not accurate or something.

Now with your 19 plate configuration. The maximum 100% Faraday no moisture is 1.43 LPM or 5.55 MMW but if you are making 1.8 LPM your mmw is 6.99. Same problem lots of moisture or not measured right.

The 19 plate one is closer to the actual with the added moisture, but the 21 plate is way off. Both have a problem. Still it does not compute.

One problem that will help the 19 plate reactor is to get better thicker gauge wires (more strands the better) coming to the reactor so you have at least 13.8 volts at the reactor. There is a lot of loss at 12.87. That will make a big difference.

[Donor]

I feel like Mater the tow truck in the CARS movie. The wire I used was 12 gauge which is what I saw in a diagram. My testing was done with a 1 liter bottle in a 2 liter bottle filled with water and a hose going through the 2 liter bottle cap into the 1 liter bottle and did a stopwatch. Maybe put heavier wire in ?

[Donor]

Whats a MMW and who is Farraday ? I know LPM , EFIE , and PWM.

[myoldyourgold]

Here is Wikipedia's link on Faraday's Law it will explain it much more than I can.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday...w_of_induction

MMW stands for Milliliter per Minute per Watt and is used as a measure of efficiency. Not the best measure in my book but one that is accepted in the industry. The problem with any measurement is how you are measuring it and what are you measuring, gas or gas and moisture. Moisture takes up many times the amount of space as the gas does and will distort the numbers. You think you are making a lot more gas than you really are.

I use 8 gauge with a huge number of strands over 200 if I remember but good oxygen free very flexible wire used in stereo systems works good.

[Donor]

I am just worried about that vapor. If I knew it wasn't bad news I won't go back to the 21 plate.

[myoldyourgold]

With a reasonable bubbler I would not worry about what looks like steam unless it is coming out of your bubbler. Keep the 19 plate under or at 30 amps and you should be OK if everything is working right.