HHO ECU tuning the right way
Hi guys, this is my first time posting but I'm not new to vehicles and modifications. I've been looking into HHO for some time and until now haven't heard enough first hand accounts of success. Now that I know it works in reality I need to be able to have it work properly and reliably.
I've read all about the signal modifiers for the MAF and o2 sensors and understand why they are being made but I don't believe that's the right way for me. Tricking a cars computer is bad idea because it functions on so many levels. You modify you MAF signal and your load values are all skewed which has effects on your timing etc. You fool your o2 sensors to get a nice mpg improvement but a month or whatever later you find you melted a piston by running it too lean and rippin on it. This car is going to be my DD for a 150k round trip daily and will see some serious abuse on and off the track. While driving to work last summer I could get 24mpg over a weeks highway commute at 120kph. I'd love to see 30+
I have a 1994 Mustang GT with a mild performance built 5.0l, Tweecer hardware interface for ECU and Binary Editor and EEC analyser software for tuning as well as a Innovate wideband o2 sensor and display for a tuning aid. The only other thing that would make this a perfect test vehicle is EGT monitoring gauges. 300 rwhp
My big question is what air fuel ratio I should be running with HHO gas? For gasoline the stoichiometric burn ratio is 14.64 to 1. What is the Stoic burn ratio for a given gasoline and hho mixture?
What is the limit of the stock narrowband sensors for reading a lean burn? Can I effectively modify my tune to make it all work? has anybody tuned an ECU for performance and HHO gas? Thanks all
Last edited by SuckSqueezeBangBlow; 04-07-2012 at 03:54 AM.
to clarify this is a pre-purchase question. I dont have any HHO hardware yet because I'm completing a suspension overhaul and upgrade over the next month or two. I just want to hear from some more people who have experience with ECU intergration.
You can download and free version of BE and EA for http://eecanalyzer.net/ maybe someone has used something like this before. Thanks again
Has anybody thought of using a Innovate wideband o2 sensor in place of the stock HEGO's? You could program the second channel to match the OEM sensors voltage but have the afr switchpoint anywhere you want it. Say at 15.5 -16. This would net MPG on its own but the addition of HHO gas should make it even better while also maintaining performance.
HHO is no new but nobody care before and now the people is who research and experiment with the own cars and money, dealers and car companies are complete quiet about HHO development, no private projects are financed for the government bla bla bla so the right way for do this a install a HHO unit with a stable injection and right CC and mixture of H, temperatures, presures, residues and timing of the engine and proper reprogramming of the ECU and this is something impossible because every car need a specific change and using different HHO systems in same brand and model going to need a different reprogramming so we have to take this very easy because we dont have support and nobody want to mess with the ECU unit that is why the people cheat with the sensors.
Last edited by Aviador; 04-14-2012 at 04:13 PM.
I think a wideband could be useful for anyone wanting to tune.
If you are considering a purchase then you will mostly find 6x6" reactors solo or in kit forms. Some work well and others suck balls. Regardless, I don't know of any builder out there that pre-conditions their own reactors before selling them. I have seen wild variations in the potency of what we call HHO here and the cause is most always related to crappy design or lack of preparation.
You sound like an potential engineer; why not just build your own?
what AFR to use with LC-1
That's what I am doing right now. I bought the Innovate LC-1 to control my O2. This is all well addressed by PJ Kelly's site. He shows just moving the lean/rich toggle point for a narrow band simulation up 1 point, i.e. instead of toggling at 14.5~, toggle at 15.5. That's where I am starting... Doing a Buick Cent. '02. These GM engines have a MAP and MAF, freq based to boot. Any car that bothers to put use both a MAF and MAP sensor, I figure I got to control both, those two things got to give the ECU designer pretty tight control over engine performance. Just a hunch... So most vehicles they seem to say you get control of the ECU with just a MAP and the O2. I would bet otherwise on these GM engines. Got a Ford Windstar I am looking at, I think it just has a MAF. Def. gonna look at 16+ AFR. They say do it until the engine starts to run poorly, then back off. Using a Jaycar DFA on the MAP, Total control of all signals, can make it do whatever you want. Built it myself from the kit, $60, about 2 mos. project. Since its my first tuning attempt, also installed an Auber Instrument EGT to keep an eye on things.
Last edited by sampojo; 08-13-2012 at 09:11 AM.
Reason: more to say, sp
had a vaca in here, but got the LC-1 installed now. Using the LSU-4 wide-band to replace the OEM narrow band. Throws a PO135 code about the heater circuit. So I have to run the old O2 sensor off to the side somewhere. My guage to the AFR signal isn't picking anything up. More work. Hope the LC-1 isn't bad... Can't program it yet bc my laptop does not have a DB9 connector. found cheap adapters ($3-$6~) free mail on ebay for USB port. I think they need to update that in the Innovative Motor Sports kit.
Last edited by sampojo; 08-13-2012 at 09:09 AM.
Reason: add comment
Using the LC-1
Got it all hooked up. Works as advertised. Big problem the whole HHO system though. Programmed in the narrow band graph to run about .03v leaner, and accordingly the AFR increased (leaner) to run more around 16 vs 14.7. controlled the MAP sensor with my DFA, it runs about 2psi lower, meaning the PCM would see less demand for gas. so far so good. cranked up my mileage shop HHO generator with addt'l electrolyte to run at 15A to max out the output. So guess what, mileage dropped from about 30 to 27mpg on the trip in . And the Fuelsaver-MPG MAF frequency controller didn't work at all, killing the motor when turned on. I am gonna try a complete brain-drain of the PCM, like it just came off the assembly line. Maybe another point or 2 on the AFR. Could be timing, so I will need to control the IAT and ECT before I can say definitely that this crap don't work.