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Thread: separator membrain, what material?

  1. #1

    separator membrain, what material?

    First of all, I've been lurking around here for a long time now. I finally registered today. Thanks for all the info I've gathered.
    I'm building my second generator. I'm using 8x8 20 ga 316 plates. I keep going back to wanting a separator cell. I don't know what the the membrane material is called. So i don't know what to search for to find a vendor. I found this but they don't tell you what the material is, and won't answer my emails about cutting a custom size.

    So what should I use? Where do I get it?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    1,418
    Quote Originally Posted by tweakedlogic View Post
    First of all, I've been lurking around here for a long time now. I finally registered today. Thanks for all the info I've gathered.
    I'm building my second generator. I'm using 8x8 20 ga 316 plates. I keep going back to wanting a separator cell. I don't know what the the membrane material is called. So i don't know what to search for to find a vendor. I found this but they don't tell you what the material is, and won't answer my emails about cutting a custom size.

    So what should I use? Where do I get it?
    The material used by most is Uncoated Ripstop nylon.
    http://www.seattlefabrics.com/nylons...1.1%20oz%20RS0
    The other is the finest nylon used in the slick screening industry. Both must be uncoated.

    The problem with both of these materials is they do not prevent bleed over. The reservoirs must have exactly the same pressure so have to be connected at the bottom but any large bump, steep grade, fast stop will result in uneven pressure and one of the gases will leak into the other. The only membrane that prevents this is patented and prohibitive in price. It is used in fuel cells. The gains by splitting will never be as good as can be obtained by a well setup good HHO reactor producing high quality gas. People selling this stuff have a different story which is mainly hype in my opinion.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb."

    ONE Liter per minute per 10 amps which just isn't possible Ha Ha .

  3. #3
    Thank you for the info. And thanks for the link. I'll check, but I doubt anyone in Memphis can laser cut it for me. Probably going to have to ship it with specs to some where.

    I'm not too concerned with some bleed over. Absolute separation is not a goal. If a little O2 gets mixed in, I don't think I'll even notice. Just trying to see what gains there are to be had if any. This is going in a 4.0 Explorer. EPA rated @ 17 avg in 1992. Add in the lift and 33" tires and it's pretty much a brick on stilts.

  4. #4
    Another material you can get local is landscape fabric.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    4

    Separator cells

    Nafion membrane and other brand names are used in many fuel cells and new (previously HHO) generators to block the migration of O2 into H2 as they are respectively generated by the anodes and cathodes.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    194
    why dont you want the Oxygen?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    Nafion membrane and other brand names are used in many fuel cells and new (previously HHO) generators to block the migration of O2 into H2 as they are respectively generated by the anodes and cathodes.
    Very true but will add at least $800 to a 7 cell 8 plate bipolar reactor. With less results than a simple HHO reactor with no separation.


    why dont you want the Oxygen?
    When just H is injected it uses some of O that normally would be used by the fuel and would show rich if you injected enough and the ECM would try to lean out things biased on the O2 sensor. The problem with this is it will take more current/HP than you would get gain to make than much H, so HHO is better in my opinion when done right. Small gains are possible with just H with no electronics when done right but I think small gains are also available with HHO and no electronics but maybe harder to his the right spot.

    HHO in larger volumes shows more O2 in the exhaust so the ECM tries to richen the mixture. This is why EFIE's are used.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb."

    ONE Liter per minute per 10 amps which just isn't possible Ha Ha .

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    4

    Nafion Membrane

    I actually have quotes for the membrane in a .007" thickness to do a complete 7 plate cell for less than $100. Am I missing something, is that a sufficient thickness for impermeability, or maybe it is just more affordable now than your last pricing?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    That could be possible but without knowing the size of your plates I can not compare. It sounds like a good deal to me.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb."

    ONE Liter per minute per 10 amps which just isn't possible Ha Ha .

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    San Diego, California.
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    337

    Oxygen in the exhaust.

    Quote Originally Posted by myoldyourgold View Post

    HHO in larger volumes shows more O2 in the exhaust so the ECM tries to richen the mixture. This is why EFIE's are used.
    Did you measure this excess O2 in the exhaust? And if you did, how was this measured?

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