Painless experiment in HHO

[Dave Nowlin]

SSC has a very valid point. Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, most are interested in these cells for use in their vehicles. The problem seems to be that some vehicles respond to HHO better than others. How many would spend $800 to $1,200 on a cell that might or might not help them with fuel economy? I suspect very few. Less today with the economy as it is and gas prices low like they are now. When gas was $4 a gallon and the economy was better the market would have been better. Until a way is found to make a reliable, affordable cell that will work in all vehicles safely, this will simply be a curiosity. Some people will be fascinated and others will probably say, "get a life." This involves more tedium and challenge than many are willing to tolerate. Will all the effort be worth it? We really won't know until someone makes a true breakthrough or all give up the effort.

Dave Nowlin

[H2OPWR]

welcome to my world ... when the group that became EBN was knocking this around we were confronted with exactly those concerns ... do we come out of the gate with the slickest most efficient device we knew how to build or do we get something out there that is superior to most but is still simple enough that anyone could make one themselves ...

it was a tough one to argue out ... and as you have found out the hard way, that high end, high efficiency device can be a bear to assemble ... and even if it is properly designed and built using injection moldings and mass production techniques, it will end up being a fairly expensive piece of equipment ... maybe more than the average fellow could afford to pay ...

so we compromised ... life is full of compromises ... at some point, you just have to step back and tell yourself, "its not perfect, but its good enough" ... then press on ...

that monster you have assembled is probably one of the efficient devices currently being publicly shown that is capable of sustained use in the field ... its an impressive piece of work and you should be very proud of the work you have put into it ... but I pity the poor guy who tries to follow in your foot steps ... they will have no idea the level of tedium and hard work they are getting themselves into ...

if we thought that the market could stand a device in the $800-1200 price range, the methods for mass producing a field capable device that has no holes and is at least as efficient as your device if not a bit more, are well known ... such a device could be on the street in quantity within a matter of a few weeks if we really thought anyone would buy them ... but as a one of a kind built by hand piece, the price would be 5 times that at least ...

SSC, Yes if someone wants to produce a copy of my device they had better be ready for weeks of hard work and ready to spend three or four times the money of an off the shelf device like the ones EBN markets.

That is not why I do this. I see this as a challenge that I simply have to overcome. That is not how it started but is now what it has become. When I get the idea in my head that I can make some improvements I simply can not let it go. If I was looking at this as a business venture I would have followed down the same path that you and EBN has. What I am doing is for enjoyment and the challenge.

Please do not even try to tell me that you are not the same. If good enough was OK with you then you would not be here. You like most of us are looking for new and better ways.

Larry

[SmartScarecrow]

SSC, Yes if someone wants to produce a copy of my device they had better be ready for weeks of hard work and ready to spend three or four times the money of an off the shelf device like the ones EBN markets.

That is not why I do this. I see this as a challenge that I simply have to overcome. That is not how it started but is now what it has become. When I get the idea in my head that I can make some improvements I simply can not let it go. If I was looking at this as a business venture I would have followed down the same path that you and EBN has. What I am doing is for enjoyment and the challenge.

Please do not even try to tell me that you are not the same. If good enough was OK with you then you would not be here. You like most of us are looking for new and better ways.

Larry

your are correct ... what I have classed as "good enough" today, will certainly be inferior at some point ... a model t was good enough in the 1920's but would not meet our expectations today ... we are in the days of the model t with our devices right now ... they work, they are reliable and produce usable quantities of gas ... but if we keep to the quest and keep moving forward a step at a time, what we are using today will look quaint five years from now ... steady incremental improvement may not be as exciting as the magical breakthrough, but it is known path ... and so we press on ...

[livehho]

but I'm not happy about going to heavy into the leaning route without the comfort of an EGT.

How can an EGT gauge help here? What do you have to look for in the pyrometer? Trying to avoid over-stressing the engine?

(still on page 36. sorry if u've already answered this)

[Painless]

While I'm awaiting an opportunity to try out my new cell at decent amps, I thought I would share another HHO interest I've started looking more into of late. It's all Scarecrows fault, by the way! ... HHO Torches.

All I'm using at the moment is an 18 gauge needle, connected to a ball valve through to a balloon full of HHO. I want to make sure I have the flashback issue nipped before I try and connect to a cell.

I did find something interesting in Lowes yesterday for just under $12:



It's an adjustable pressure relief valve:



The inside is basically an adjustable spring loaded seal:



In this picture, you can see the adjuster inside the removable cap:



I connected this up to my tire inflator / air compressor and played with the adjustment, I found that I could adjust it all the way down to as little as 1 PSI cracking pressure and up to over 75 PSI. Should make a decent flashback arrestor, I thought.

I also picked up some fine bronze wool on my way to work today, I'm thinking that I should have several lines of defense if I'm to use a torch:

1st line: Bronze wool behind the torch tip.

2nd line: Resettable flashback device on the bubbler.

3rd line: Blow off cap on my reservoir.

Would welcome anyones input!

Russ.

[daddymikey1975]

1st line: Bronze wool behind the torch tip.

2nd line: Resettable flashback device on the bubbler.

3rd line: Blow off cap on my reservoir.

Would welcome anyones input!

Russ.

GOOD FIND !

seems like you've got your bases covered...safety first is apparent here.

keep up the good work Russ

mike

[BoyntonStu]

While I'm awaiting an opportunity to try out my new cell at decent amps, I thought I would share another HHO interest I've started looking more into of late. It's all Scarecrows fault, by the way! ... HHO Torches.

All I'm using at the moment is an 18 gauge needle, connected to a ball valve through to a balloon full of HHO. I want to make sure I have the flashback issue nipped before I try and connect to a cell.

I did find something interesting in Lowes yesterday for just under $12:



It's an adjustable pressure relief valve:



The inside is basically an adjustable spring loaded seal:



In this picture, you can see the adjuster inside the removable cap:



I connected this up to my tire inflator / air compressor and played with the adjustment, I found that I could adjust it all the way down to as little as 1 PSI cracking pressure and up to over 75 PSI. Should make a decent flashback arrestor, I thought.

I also picked up some fine bronze wool on my way to work today, I'm thinking that I should have several lines of defense if I'm to use a torch:

1st line: Bronze wool behind the torch tip.

2nd line: Resettable flashback device on the bubbler.

3rd line: Blow off cap on my reservoir.

Would welcome anyones input!

Russ.

[Painless]

How can an EGT gauge help here? What do you have to look for in the pyrometer? Trying to avoid over-stressing the engine?

(still on page 36. sorry if u've already answered this)

When using electronic mods to adjust the air/fuel ratio the danger is engine damage from excess combustion temperatures in the cylinders. Leaning out the fuel too much is the usual cause of this. An EGT gauge will allow you to monitor the exhaust temps and avoid this.

[Painless]

I built and tested a bronze wool flashback arrestor this evening, it failed on the last test of 7. When I opened it up, I realised that I hadn't put enough wool inside it and proceeded to pack it hard, right up to each hose barb.

My next step, besides putting the new cell in my truck, will be to install the relief valve on my bubbler.

[H2OPWR]

I built and tested a bronze wool flashback arrestor this evening, it failed on the last test of 7. When I opened it up, I realised that I hadn't put enough wool inside it and proceeded to pack it hard, right up to each hose barb.

My next step, besides putting the new cell in my truck, will be to install the relief valve on my bubbler.

Glad to see someone here is doing something that is actually productive.
Russ, Keep it up. These threads lately remind me of all the OU stuff as well as Scooterdog. This forum should be about HHO.

Larry