Painless experiment in HHO

[Painless]

Russ, as a suggestion, you may be able to tap into the exhaust flow to some how 'pressurize' your mix..

i don't have a clue how to effectively do that, but figure'd i toss the idea out there.

i hope this helps
mike

I'd thought about this too, Mike. Thinking I could tap into the exhaust, just after the O2 sensor, and run some steel hose to a metal tank and use the pressure and heat to make vapour. This would be great as it would be fairly proportional to engine load.

My only worries are a) heat causing issues and b) cool down pulling all the tank contents back into the exhaust.

Definitely worth thinking over.

Russ.

[daddymikey1975]

I'd thought about this too, Mike. Thinking I could tap into the exhaust, just after the O2 sensor, and run some steel hose to a metal tank and use the pressure and heat to make vapour. This would be great as it would be fairly proportional to engine load.

My only worries are a) heat causing issues and b) cool down pulling all the tank contents back into the exhaust.

Definitely worth thinking over.

Russ.

well, for help with the cooling issue, you'd simply install a check valve to allow air INTO the tank so upon cooling, it would allow air in and thus alleviate the suction OUT of the tank.. (i think)

[coffeeachiever]

Russ,
You are the f***ing man. I never cease to be amazed at your ingenuity.
I shamelessly incorporate your ideas into my own builds.

[Painless]

well, for help with the cooling issue, you'd simply install a check valve to allow air INTO the tank so upon cooling, it would allow air in and thus alleviate the suction OUT of the tank.. (i think)

Check valve would work... don't know if there's one that can stand up to 1500F though?

Russ,
You are the f***ing man. I never cease to be amazed at your ingenuity.
I shamelessly incorporate your ideas into my own builds.

Stop it, you're embarrassing me!

[Consaka]

Just so that everyone doesn't think I've given up, I wanted to share some of the things I've been working on while waiting for the ideas, decisions and physical bits and pieces to come together for my Monster Cell MkII.


I removed the resonator box, accordion hose and air filter box and deposited them in my trucks tool box (just in case) and replaced the entire system with this:


Basically, this system utilises the original connecting collar from the throttle body to the resonator box to connect the throttle body to a piece of 3" PVC pipe. At the end of the pipe is a 3" flexible pipe elbow, connected to the end of that is a FRAM air filter. The open end of the air filter is sealed with a plastic lid I had that just happened to be a beautiful fit. The IAT sensor is mounted into the PVC pipe, close to the throttle body.

This setup raises the intake air temperature approximately 10 F over outside air temp and also frees up a nice big area where the air filter box used to be, there is a bracket (see pic) from the old filter mounting that I have still to remove:


I'm planning to mod this setup further and take air from around the bank 2 exhaust manifold, this should raise the intake temp even further, hopefully improving combustion thermal efficiency.

As you can see, I've mounted a reservoir container in this area temporarily, containing a 50/50 mix of distilled water and denatured alcohol. I've been experimenting with ways to deliver this to the intake without using vacuum, but haven't had a lot of luck so far achieving enough suction. I did build a venturi, which I mounted inside the PVC pipe, however, this had no effect. My aim here is to supply a water/alcohol mist that is proportional to the amount of air flowing into the intake and doesn't use any complicated pumps etc.

Russ.

I have a few thoughts on this.. You will lose a little HP and torque with this setup, but thats not a bad trade for a few more MPG.
I would be concerned with heatsoak though. Underhood temps can get pretty warm in the summer in stop and go traffic and stopping at the mall for a few hours could easily exceed 200 degrees in under the hood temps. Will those plastic pipe segments handle repeated applications of that much heat without getting too soft and or brittle?
Another thought is you may need to replace that air cleaner more often due to the lack of baffles. This is from experiance as my diesel van has an almost identical setup I fabbed for it since it is all custom. I am using a K&N Filter roughly that size but for the tube I used an aluminum tube meant for some ricer that I picked up at the local autoparts store. It has a 45 degree turn at the end that almost matches with my Turbo inlet.

Heres an idea for your bubbler.. Try one of those sonic foggers that they use for plants etc. The downside is you would need to find a 12 volt one or wire it in with a cheap inverter. This may actually be more water then you want though.. just have an filtered air intake to your container and output hose from the top of the container to a spot between the throttle body and the air filter. Those put out a fine mist and the air flow from the small tubing should work.
just my 2cents..

[Painless]

I have a few thoughts on this.. You will lose a little HP and torque with this setup, but thats not a bad trade for a few more MPG.
I would be concerned with heatsoak though. Underhood temps can get pretty warm in the summer in stop and go traffic and stopping at the mall for a few hours could easily exceed 200 degrees in under the hood temps. Will those plastic pipe segments handle repeated applications of that much heat without getting too soft and or brittle?
Another thought is you may need to replace that air cleaner more often due to the lack of baffles. This is from experiance as my diesel van has an almost identical setup I fabbed for it since it is all custom. I am using a K&N Filter roughly that size but for the tube I used an aluminum tube meant for some ricer that I picked up at the local autoparts store. It has a 45 degree turn at the end that almost matches with my Turbo inlet.

Heres an idea for your bubbler.. Try one of those sonic foggers that they use for plants etc. The downside is you would need to find a 12 volt one or wire it in with a cheap inverter. This may actually be more water then you want though.. just have an filtered air intake to your container and output hose from the top of the container to a spot between the throttle body and the air filter. Those put out a fine mist and the air flow from the small tubing should work.
just my 2cents..

The PVC is only good to about 140 F, so you are correct about temps being an issue down the road. I stopped in Lowes today on my way to work and found that they had some flexible aluminum 3" tubing (8 foot long) for about 10 bucks. This is where I'm going long term, especially when I try extracting the heat for my intake air from the exhaust manifold. I'm also debating that the paper air cleaner won't be too happy at 200 odd F.

I have a transducer setup at home that I've been toying with, but it's not really big enough for the intake of water vapour. I'm giving some serious thought to rerouting some exhaust flow though.

Both of the above strike me as great ways to reuse waste heat!

Russ.

[daddymikey1975]

I'm also debating that the paper air cleaner won't be too happy at 200 odd F.

Russ.

you can intake the air anywhere before the filter.. then heat the air after the filter.. (again, not sure how just thinking aloud HAHA)...

heat exchanger of sorts. ?? u can use your alcohol mixture as the fluid...put the exchanger coils (the hot side) INTO the 'plenum' that you're creating.. then the normal temp air (to save the filter) will pass over some heating coils on its way to the intake ??

just another idea to mess everything up LOL

mike

[cully]

one warning with high temps under the hood

on parking up the fuel in your fuel rail will evaporate and may cause air locks in the fueling system

in the UK we had a car cant remember which make that suffered from this on hot days it gave the symptoms of being very hard to start

[BoyntonStu]

Check valve would work... don't know if there's one that can stand up to 1500F though?

BoyntonStu

[Painless]

Been thinking about this *A LOT* today, despite being kept fairly busy at work.

First off, I found Z's solenoid valve:

12VDC Solenoid Valve - Normally Open

An excellent deal at $1.25 each!!!!


Mike,

I really like your idea of the heat exchanger. I could run some copper tubing from the exhaust to a more durable air intake and, as you said, pull in normal temp air through the filter and run it past the coils. I could then take the (slightly colder) exhaust gas from my coils and use it to power the water vapouriser.

As for the check valve, I'm starting to think that one won't be needed. When the exhaust cools down, it should be able to draw plenty of outside air through the exhaust pipe. Theoretically, it shouldn't prefer the water container at all.

I'm going to keep this all in reserve for after I've gotten my new HHO generator built, installed and tuned.

Russ.