Painless experiment in HHO

[Carolinablue]

I have 25 plates in my current unit wired as follows:

-NNNNN+NNNNN-NNNNN+NNNNN-

You said you were using 41ml shower gasket. Just how thick is this for your spacing?

[Painless]

You said you were using 41ml shower gasket. Just how thick is this for your spacing?

Its 0.040".

[VanHalen]

Painless, when you sealed your plates did you gasket them on the angled lips of the plate or and the flat surface? Or do your plates even have the angled lips on the end? I'm having trouble getting a tight seal with these plates and I believe this is my problem area.

[Painless]

Painless, when you sealed your plates did you gasket them on the angled lips of the plate or and the flat surface? Or do your plates even have the angled lips on the end? I'm having trouble getting a tight seal with these plates and I believe this is my problem area.

I tried gasketting on the angled surface but couldn't get it to seal, my gaskets now sit on the flat area. I also put a layer of electrical tape over the angled edges to stop any shorting out between plates.

[Painless]

I've driven 120 miles of my regular commute to and from work since upping my output to 2.3 LPM and still cannot see any gains. My overhead gauge was reset at mile 0 and now reads 17.7 MPG, which is typical. I also filled up today and calculated average over the last tank, 16.2 MPG.

Once again, I'm comparing my setup to RadGenH2O's on youtube, he owns the same truck as I do, same year, same engine. He is outputting a bit more HHO than me, he's at 3.5 LPM and I'm at 2.3. Additionally, he has placed two O2 extenders on the pre-cat sensor *AND* two on the post-cat sensor. I've only placed two on my pre-cat sensor, I don't see why I should need to do anything to the post-cat, but am beginning to wonder if there's something I'm missing here.

When RadGenH2O was putting out 2.5 LPM, he had one extender on each sensor and was seeing large amounts of soot on his sensors, my sensors are clean as a whistle both before and after extenders. I know that Rad played with a MAP adjuster for a while, but gave up on it.

The fact still confuses me that Rad saw a 33% increase in highway MPG and 50% increase in city. So far, I've seen some increase in city MPG (although this was over short distances, I don't do much city driving) and barely 1 MPG (which could be cooler weather) on the highway.

My system is now pulling just over 30 amps, I don't want to push this anymore as I've noticed that the alternator cannot keep up at idle. When I stop at lights, the battery meter visibly ducks down below the mid mark unless I turn off the AC. Rad has his alternator modified to increase output, he's currently running about 40 amps to produce his 3.5 LPM.

Part of me wants to go the leaning route, maybe through the MAP and IAT sensors as I've been advised by other Ram owners, but I'm worried about over leaning and having EGT issues. I'd really like to be in a position where I have an EGT gauge before going this far. I'd also like more visible evidence of the HHO's effect too before I work further or spend further money which I don't have to burn.

I think a good step, as Jaxom said, would be to hook up to the computer and see what's going on there. I have a laptop, that's not a problem, but will still need to spend out on the connection hardware. If anyone has any pointers to do this on the cheap, please let me know.

I started building a cell for my wifes car yesterday, it's going to be another PDC but with just 7 plates and 5 neutrals. This is mainly to give me something constructive to do whilst I bash my head against a brick wall over my own truck. Hopefully, I will have more success with my wifes 2003 Hyundai Elantra whilst I try to figure out my Ram.

[H2OPWR]

I've driven 120 miles of my regular commute to and from work since upping my output to 2.3 LPM and still cannot see any gains. My overhead gauge was reset at mile 0 and now reads 17.7 MPG, which is typical. I also filled up today and calculated average over the last tank, 16.2 MPG.

Once again, I'm comparing my setup to RadGenH2O's on youtube, he owns the same truck as I do, same year, same engine. He is outputting a bit more HHO than me, he's at 3.5 LPM and I'm at 2.3. Additionally, he has placed two O2 extenders on the pre-cat sensor *AND* two on the post-cat sensor. I've only placed two on my pre-cat sensor, I don't see why I should need to do anything to the post-cat, but am beginning to wonder if there's something I'm missing here.

When RadGenH2O was putting out 2.5 LPM, he had one extender on each sensor and was seeing large amounts of soot on his sensors, my sensors are clean as a whistle both before and after extenders. I know that Rad played with a MAP adjuster for a while, but gave up on it.

The fact still confuses me that Rad saw a 33% increase in highway MPG and 50% increase in city. So far, I've seen some increase in city MPG (although this was over short distances, I don't do much city driving) and barely 1 MPG (which could be cooler weather) on the highway.

My system is now pulling just over 30 amps, I don't want to push this anymore as I've noticed that the alternator cannot keep up at idle. When I stop at lights, the battery meter visibly ducks down below the mid mark unless I turn off the AC. Rad has his alternator modified to increase output, he's currently running about 40 amps to produce his 3.5 LPM.

Part of me wants to go the leaning route, maybe through the MAP and IAT sensors as I've been advised by other Ram owners, but I'm worried about over leaning and having EGT issues. I'd really like to be in a position where I have an EGT gauge before going this far. I'd also like more visible evidence of the HHO's effect too before I work further or spend further money which I don't have to burn.

I think a good step, as Jaxom said, would be to hook up to the computer and see what's going on there. I have a laptop, that's not a problem, but will still need to spend out on the connection hardware. If anyone has any pointers to do this on the cheap, please let me know.

I started building a cell for my wifes car yesterday, it's going to be another PDC but with just 7 plates and 5 neutrals. This is mainly to give me something constructive to do whilst I bash my head against a brick wall over my own truck. Hopefully, I will have more success with my wifes 2003 Hyundai Elantra whilst I try to figure out my Ram.

If the other person is gaining more fuel savings and has put a high output alternator on his Dodge it is possible that his Alternator is much higher quality than OEM. I do know for a fact that some high quality alternators take less hp to run at almost twice the output. That could be some of his gain nut no where near the increase he is claiming.

[Painless]

If the other person is gaining more fuel savings and has put a high output alternator on his Dodge it is possible that his Alternator is much higher quality than OEM. I do know for a fact that some high quality alternators take less hp to run at almost twice the output. That could be some of his gain nut no where near the increase he is claiming.

From conversations I had with him on youtube, his alternator is the original but was modified. The most info he could provide was that he thought the guy changed some diodes.

[H2OPWR]

From conversations I had with him on youtube, his alternator is the original but was modified. The most info he could provide was that he thought the guy changed some diodes.

I would really like to know what was modified because I want amperage available from my 2008 Nissan Frontier and no one that I can find yet makes a high output alternator for that model. The best ones I can find are from Green Machines. They put out 200 amps+ and use less hp than the OEM. I do not think that diodes alone will increase current. From what I understand the diodes chande the AC current that the alternator makes to DC for your car.

[Jaxom]

A high-current diode bridge and a good heat-sink for it and the regulator will beef up the output of any alternator. Since most Dodge alternators don't have an internal regulator (the field windings are duty-cycle controlled by the PCM to control the output) he likely just changed the diodes and maybe added a heatsink. Search the 4x4 sites...those guys like to run a lot of lights and stuff which draws a lot of current. They can probably point you toward a good kit if you want one.

I don't see how extenders on the downstream sensors could make the difference....as far as I know they're used exclusively for catalytic convertor diagnostics.

[Painless]

I don't see how extenders on the downstream sensors could make the difference....as far as I know they're used exclusively for catalytic convertor diagnostics.

I totally agree, I just emailed him on youtube asking if he had some hidden insight here.

Other than that, the only difference in our setups is his extra 1 LPM of gas, but when we're talking the difference between 2.3 and 3.5 ish I think I should be seeing *some* gains. We're even delivering our HHO to the same point, the base of the throttle body next to the idle hole.