Painless experiment in HHO

[Painless]

Quickly approaching 20,000 views Painless! I think you should start a new thread summing up everything you have learned on this journey you have been on. Thanks to all who put in all the work, ask the questions, and contribute with knowledge in their field.

That's a tender point that I believe I have ranted about before. So much information is buried deep in this forum that is hard to sift through and find, it just *NEEDS* to all be stored in a medium where any newcomer can quickly find the answers they need.

Due to the complete flop of my wiki I'm considering trashing it and just building a plain website of information. I intend to do a lot of data collection and analysis / comparison with the elmscan when it arrives and will need a medium to share that data and my findings (in addition to the forum).

Why so much data collection?

If I can find or build the right hardware to allow sensor inputs to be read *AND* manipulated by a PC then my long term goal is to produce an open source (Linux based) system that will manage and continually tune an HHO installation. This has been my vision that I have been building in my mind for some time, but have not shared publicly until now. Imagine, no tuning EFIE's or MAP adjusters etc, just plumb in your HHO generator and laptop or miniature form factor PC and away you go. I'm determined to make this happen and *WILL* make it happen. Is this going to be a five minute project? ... of course not, but the end results will be worth it. 'HHO for the common folk' is our forums dedication and that's what I intend to work towards.

[coffeeachiever]

A compilation of findings is a great idea. Not just for newcomers but for all of us. Even for those of us that have kept up with the thread from page one, going back and finding something you know you've read can be a pretty intensive labor.

[Painless]

After seeing Stu's results yesterday, I decided to rebuild my cell this morning with the bottom holes sealed. I did this by inserting a piece of smaller tubing I had through the bottom holes and sealing each end with a nylon bolt. After inserting the bolts, I cut the heads off to make them flush with the tubing end.

Here's some pics:

Threading the plates onto the tubing:



Nylon bolts inserted to seal the holes on each end:

[Super Fuel FX]

then... my long term goal is to produce an open source (Linux based) system ...

Please tell us that you were just joking about the Linux thing... PLEASE !

[alpha-dog]

Linux is what I use also
Russ

[Painless]

Please tell us that you were just joking about the Linux thing... PLEASE !

Nope, not joking! All my computers run Linux and nothing else. Plus, it's free!

[lowriderjj]

I ran across this in the www.h21o.com forum and thought you might be interested in it.



Free OBDII/CAN diagostic software. All you need are cables.
OBDII/CAN software that you can use to monitor your system with a cheap laptop and cables that you can either buy from them or make yer own as they provide schematics for free as well.

Link here http://obddiagnostics.com/

The original author states as follows:

I just got my cables in Saturday (real fast delivery BTW) and I will do some tests on this software and post videos. I stumbled across this awhile back and I have been running it in simulation mode and I really like this software. It is like a Scangauge on steroids for us hobbyists and also has alot of professional features as well.

The most important thing I like about this software is the logging functionality. You can log alot of data thru the laptop whilst driving so you can review it later versus yer HHO install.

If you are having trouble with yer ECU, PCM, ECM then you need to at least check this out.

You can download the software for free and test it in a simulated mode. You can also git the schematics as well for free to build yer own cable and interface box from the same cite.

If you do decide to purchase the cables from BR then let them know that www.h21o.com or that I or www.cruiselean.com referred you to them. The software is free, the cables run around $80. A good investment IMO. Plus it's mostly open source cept for the software, which once you see it in action I think you will like it.

[Painless]

Well, today has been both disappointing and encouraging... let me elaborate:

I finished up installing the new cell, reservoir and PWM into my truck today. I went the whole hog and used 3 runs of 10 gauge wire to carry my expected maximum load of 50 amps.

When I fired it up, the cell was pumping very well and equally from both sides. I also noticed that the HHO was visually cleaner with the NaOH than with KOH.

The disappointment was that after adding and adding NaOH (100% NaOH Roebic drain cleaner) I could not get the unit to pull more than 15 amps at 100% duty cycle. After putting what must have been my 20th teaspoon of NaOH into my 1 gallon of distilled water, I decided to stop and take a measurement anyway.

The results blew me away:

Volts: 13.9
Amps: 15
ML: 500
Time: 22 seconds
LPM: 1.36
Watts: 208.5
MMW: 6.54

This is definitely a HUGE jump in efficiency and definitely helps counteract my disappointment at the amp draw. Something isn't right here and I'm just thinking that maybe I need to take another look at the PWM settings (as this is my first time using one).

The PWM has a jumper for frequency, with it closed you can adjust frequency with the dial from 400Hz to 3Khz, with the jumper open it fixes at 100Hz. Seeing as HHOPWR proved that those kind of frequencies make no difference in output, I have left it at the 100Hz open jumper setting. Perhaps I should try the higher frequency?

Russ.

[H2OPWR]

Well, today has been both disappointing and encouraging... let me elaborate:

I finished up installing the new cell, reservoir and PWM into my truck today. I went the whole hog and used 3 runs of 10 gauge wire to carry my expected maximum load of 50 amps.

When I fired it up, the cell was pumping very well and equally from both sides. I also noticed that the HHO was visually cleaner with the NaOH than with KOH.

The disappointment was that after adding and adding NaOH (100% NaOH Roebic drain cleaner) I could not get the unit to pull more than 15 amps at 100% duty cycle. After putting what must have been my 20th teaspoon of NaOH into my 1 gallon of distilled water, I decided to stop and take a measurement anyway.

The results blew me away:

Volts: 13.9
Amps: 15
ML: 500
Time: 22 seconds
LPM: 1.36
Watts: 208.5
MMW: 6.54

This is definitely a HUGE jump in efficiency and definitely helps counteract my disappointment at the amp draw. Something isn't right here and I'm just thinking that maybe I need to take another look at the PWM settings (as this is my first time using one).

The PWM has a jumper for frequency, with it closed you can adjust frequency with the dial from 400Hz to 3Khz, with the jumper open it fixes at 100Hz. Seeing as HHOPWR proved that those kind of frequencies make no difference in output, I have left it at the 100Hz open jumper setting. Perhaps I should try the higher frequency?

Russ.

Russ, Nice MMW but are you absolutly sure that with blocking the bottom set of holes that you do not have air pockets in the cell? And when adding more SaOH that the stronger electrolite is it getting to the cell and not staying in the resevoir? I did build a cell once with only top holes (no video's. at that time I did not have a video camera). I know Stu is making it work with a check valve but I could not. I ran into the problems I just described over and over. Every time I tried to adjust the electrolite strength it would take day's for the stronger concentration to get all the way through the cell. I was constantly chasing amps until I pulled the cell apart and drilled bottom holes. I did get a little more production but it was not worth the frustration.

[Painless]

Russ, Nice MMW but are you absolutly sure that with blocking the bottom set of holes that you do not have air pockets in the cell? And when adding more SaOH that the stronger electrolite is it getting to the cell and not staying in the resevoir? I did build a cell once with only top holes (no video's. at that time I did not have a video camera). I know Stu is making it work with a check valve but I could not. I ran into the problems I just described over and over. Every time I tried to adjust the electrolite strength it would take day's for the stronger concentration to get all the way through the cell. I was constantly chasing amps until I pulled the cell apart and drilled bottom holes. I did get a little more production but it was not worth the frustration.

Larry,

That's certainly a possibility to be considered, I wish I still had the 'eye' into my cell like my old designs so I could see if that is happening.

Thanks for the info, I hadn't thought of that.

Russ.