low LPM

[Jamesleaper]

Ok ive just added a 13 plate generator 200mm * 200mm square to my existing 25 plate 150mm * 100mm, the 25 plate was producing a little 0.6 LPM ive now added a larger unit as well as the existing unit and i am now getting 0.5 LPM ?!

Cant figure that out, so if anyone has any ideas please tell.

I have a 28% mix ratio and i am pulling 36mv via a shunt 75mv at 50amp. I also have a 30 amp PWM connected which i have cranked right up, (i am expecting the fuse to blow).

I intend to change the Mix incase i miscalculated, other than that i have no idea, any comments appreciated.

video shows the set up

http://youtu.be/b9xbVv3Igvg

[BioFarmer93]

James,
We can't tell a thing about what the problem could be from your description or the video- all we can do is make guesses. I suggest you pull both units out of the car along with the PWM (since it's no longer needed with so much plate area) and set them on the bench to photo or video them so we can see connections and spacing etc. When you say 28% I assume you mean 280 grams of KOH to 720cc of distilled water? Please hook up one reactor at a time via heavy gauge wires to your battery while the engine is running at a high idle (1000 rpm) with NO PWM in the circuit- this is a test and we must eliminate as many variables as possible. Measure the output and video the act so we can admire your eudiometer. Since you gave no info on the build, we don't have a clue if you ate greasy chips before assembling the reactor without washing your hands and put greasy fingerprints all over the un-sanded, un-washed un-media blasted un-cleaned plates.. Just having a bit of fun there, but you see what I'm saying, right? We need a good bit more info to be of real help, as all we could do now is play 50 questions.

[Jamesleaper]

James,
We can't tell a thing about what the problem could be from your description or the video- all we can do is make guesses. I suggest you pull both units out of the car along with the PWM (since it's no longer needed with so much plate area) and set them on the bench to photo or video them so we can see connections and spacing etc. When you say 28% I assume you mean 280 grams of KOH to 720cc of distilled water? Please hook up one reactor at a time via heavy gauge wires to your battery while the engine is running at a high idle (1000 rpm) with NO PWM in the circuit- this is a test and we must eliminate as many variables as possible. Measure the output and video the act so we can admire your eudiometer. Since you gave no info on the build, we don't have a clue if you ate greasy chips before assembling the reactor without washing your hands and put greasy fingerprints all over the un-sanded, un-washed un-media blasted un-cleaned plates.. Just having a bit of fun there, but you see what I'm saying, right? We need a good bit more info to be of real help, as all we could do now is play 50 questions.

Ok will strip down the assembly and bench test, just to confirm, you say there is no need for PWM with that concentration, ithought it gave better production of HHO and kept system cooler?
Also, i sanded the plates, but care was not taken regard to greasy dirty hands, could this have such a dramatic affect? thanks jim

[BioFarmer93]

Ok will strip down the assembly and bench test, just to confirm, you say there is no need for PWM with that concentration, ithought it gave better production of HHO and kept system cooler?
Also, i sanded the plates, but care was not taken regard to greasy dirty hands, could this have such a dramatic affect? thanks jim

Jim,
"Concentration" refers to electrolyte strength, not number of plates. You didn't state whether you had connected the second unit independently, in series, or in parallel, so it's difficult if not impossible to ascertain the voltage & amperage supplied to the reactors. The plate's configuration (pos, neg, neutral and number) as well as preparation, flatness, hole location & size all play a role in production volume.

PWM's are not necessary on any 6 neutral and larger 5 neutral reactors- the latter of which are usually heat regulated by coming off a bit from the 28% max KOH concentration. A 6 neutral reactor of any physical size will not overheat due to the voltage distribution (in a nominal 12V system) across the cells being closer to the idealized production efficiency norm. This simply means the available voltage is not wasted in heat that is produced when the voltage too greatly exceeds that which is necessary for gas production.

Dirty/oily hands during reactor assembly are anathema to good production. Anywhere that skin oils (or any other occluding material) are on a plate results in a non-productive area. It is not much of an exaggeration to say that the best built reactors are prepared and assembled in an almost "surgically" clean manner.

Please relate to us the plate thickness, gasket thickness, connection method, plate preparation steps, etc. so that an accurate analysis can be conducted- and we should be able to have you bubbling away in no time... Take care-

[Jamesleaper]

Jim,
"Concentration" refers to electrolyte strength, not number of plates. You didn't state whether you had connected the second unit independently, in series, or in parallel, so it's difficult if not impossible to ascertain the voltage & amperage supplied to the reactors. The plate's configuration (pos, neg, neutral and number) as well as preparation, flatness, hole location & size all play a role in production volume.

PWM's are not necessary on any 6 neutral and larger 5 neutral reactors- the latter of which are usually heat regulated by coming off a bit from the 28% max KOH concentration. A 6 neutral reactor of any physical size will not overheat due to the voltage distribution (in a nominal 12V system) across the cells being closer to the idealized production efficiency norm. This simply means the available voltage is not wasted in heat that is produced when the voltage too greatly exceeds that which is necessary for gas production.

Dirty/oily hands during reactor assembly are anathema to good production. Anywhere that skin oils (or any other occluding material) are on a plate results in a non-productive area. It is not much of an exaggeration to say that the best built reactors are prepared and assembled in an almost "surgically" clean manner.

Please relate to us the plate thickness, gasket thickness, connection method, plate preparation steps, etc. so that an accurate analysis can be conducted- and we should be able to have you bubbling away in no time... Take care-

I've videoed the build, the plates and gaskets are 1mm thick and the stainless plate is supposed to be 366l however i Dont know how to tell that other than a certificate of authenticity. The holes for the inlet where drilled half way up and i placed them incorrectly and as a consequence had to put another hole for the outlet at the top. Electrical connection; i connected the 2nd unit direct to the 1st, could do with some advice on that.

http://youtu.be/55ixzr1b92Y

Thanks jim

[aceras624]

did you really mean "366L"? or did you mean to say 316L?

[Jamesleaper]

did you really mean "366L"? or did you mean to say 316L?

Yes sorry, 316L

[BioFarmer93]

I've videoed the build, the plates and gaskets are 1mm thick and the stainless plate is supposed to be 366l however i Dont know how to tell that other than a certificate of authenticity. The holes for the inlet where drilled half way up and i placed them incorrectly and as a consequence had to put another hole for the outlet at the top. Electrical connection; i connected the 2nd unit direct to the 1st, could do with some advice on that.

http://youtu.be/55ixzr1b92Y

Thanks jim

Jim,
Did you connect the positive of the first device to the positive of the second device, and same with the negatives and have those doubled wires connected to the appropriate supply (parallel), or did you supply power in to the positive of the first device with its negative connected to the positive of the second device with its negative connected to the ground (earth) or negative lead to battery (series)?

[Jamesleaper]

Jim,
Did you connect the positive of the first device to the positive of the second device, and same with the negatives and have those doubled wires connected to the appropriate supply (parallel), or did you supply power in to the positive of the first device with its negative connected to the positive of the second device with its negative connected to the ground (earth) or negative lead to battery (series)?

the first unit positive is connected to the battery,(via relay switch), the negative is connected to earth via the car chassis, not directly to the battery. The second units positive is connected to the first units positive, and the 2nd units negative is connected to the car chassis.

[D.O.G]

the first unit positive is connected to the battery,(via relay switch), the negative is connected to earth via the car chassis, not directly to the battery. The second units positive is connected to the first units positive, and the 2nd units negative is connected to the car chassis.

Have you checked the actual voltage at each reactor while they're running? It sounds like you may have too much voltage drop in the supply circuit.

If the voltage is much lower than at the battery (around 13.8V with the vehicle running), work backwards from the new reactor, checking each connection as you go, looking for changes in the voltage readings.

Sharing the positive wiring may be an issue depending on the wire size you've used.
Using the vehicle chassis may introduce a small drop.
The shunt will introduce a small drop, even the relay, PWM or fuse connections may contribute as well.