Help with EFIE and Fuel Trim

[Madsceintist]

I took a look at that article thank you. And if you look at which assembly he is showing then it backs me up 100%. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyone on here can spend 5 min. or more to search for this type of setup you say you use. ITS not available. No automobile manufacture, after-market manufacture or service technician will offer or recommend that the fuel pump voltage be altered as this! I took the knowledge that I have and what I have learned of HHO and the use of both to do what I did! I will help anyone to understand how and what and why, but I have surpassed that point in my own achievements. However some may still wish to use it, and that's more than fine with me. All systems available; stand alone of any type, factory, or replacement of all types alter the injection pulse of the INJECTOR, not the pump.

Note in my use of this particular experiment I did find that below 4.5 volts created too much heat build-up to control. Something somewhere would burn or blow. So use caution and circuit breakers for anyone attempting this! I used a 40 amp fan control relay and "2" 20 amp circuit breakers bridged to get the voltage I wanted, the switch for the controller is what would give in the end(until i figured out to stay above 4.5 volts).

So to detour the next question, I would drive at normal ranges and varied roads for several miles(usually 30 or more at minimum), not just to the corner and back. I measured by the exact gallon not the fill up. When on the highway where i had a light load and no stop and go, I would go from a minimum voltage to the fuel pump being switched OFF. With the fuel pump switched off, I would drive strictly on HHO until the engine needed the additional power to pull a hill or pass or when I came to a stop or slowed down enough that it would chug, indicating that I needed to turn on the pump which would be at the minimum voltage necessary to keep the engine running and not chugging. Again as I said, the sweet spot in which I found was between 5. volts to 7.5 volts to the pump. Occasionally I did have to have it around 9. volts to drive in town. This was all measured with a very nice volt meter, a FLUKE. I also have a FLUKE 336 clamp amp-meter that is no contact, also very nice to have!

[RustyLugNut]

I took a look at that article thank you. And if you look at which assembly he is showing then it backs me up 100%. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyone on here can spend 5 min. or more to search for this type of setup you say you use. ITS not available. No automobile manufacture, after-market manufacture or service technician will offer or recommend that the fuel pump voltage be altered as this! I took the knowledge that I have and what I have learned of HHO and the use of both to do what I did! I will help anyone to understand how and what and why, but I have surpassed that point in my own achievements. However some may still wish to use it, and that's more than fine with me. All systems available; stand alone of any type, factory, or replacement of all types alter the injection pulse of the INJECTOR, not the pump.

Note in my use of this particular experiment I did find that below 4.5 volts created too much heat build-up to control. Something somewhere would burn or blow. So use caution and circuit breakers for anyone attempting this! I used a 40 amp fan control relay and "2" 20 amp circuit breakers bridged to get the voltage I wanted, the switch for the controller is what would give in the end(until i figured out to stay above 4.5 volts).

The builders of Retrotek are right here in Hawthorne California. Their controller works on the principle of PWM of the pump motor.

MSD has a system which can run return less using the same principle of varying the pump speed.

Why don't you call them up and tell them what you just posted on here?

[Madsceintist]

it inspired me to build a closed loop controller for the Summit EFI pump I use inline in my Mercedes. There is no return line. A piezo electric pressure sensor feeds a signal to a custom programmed MicroPic micro controller that drives a pair of HexFets which in turn drive the pump via variable duration pulses (PWM).
The thing is, you can now purchase after market kits to do the same thing for only a few hundred dollars. Look up Retrotek.

What pump and what pressure does it have the capability of handling?

Looked it up; For the "return-less" system it isn't using a factory pump, which are high pressure pumps 30 to over 70 psi! Controlling an exterior low pressure pump is one thing. I have used these types of pumps to run carburetors for years. I can say that I haven't seen a management system for them however.

[RustyLugNut]

What pump and what pressure does it have the capability of handling?

Looked it up; For the "return-less" system it isn't using a factory pump, which are high pressure pumps 30 to over 70 psi! Controlling an exterior low pressure pump is one thing. I have used these types of pumps to run carburetors for years. I can say that I haven't seen a management system for them however.

The Summit pump is their MSD Knock-off. I think they still sell it as their part number Sum-G3138. It is rated at 45 psi.

The Retrotek controller can be used with stock pumps in most cases. I have a 2005 Hemi I want to set up with a Pro Charger blower, and I don't want to use their extra enrichment injection block. The Retrotek might allow me to do without the enrichment block by simply increasing rail pressure when under boost. We'll see.

And MacSceintist, this is a good useful discussion. Just like many of your auto related discussions. We appreciate that.

[myoldyourgold]

Thank you Gentleman. This is worth while, informative and appreciated. This gives one more avenue to achieve better results when it comes to tuning of some of the newer vehicles. It does possibly make things a little more complex and expensive.

[RustyLugNut]

This gives one more avenue to achieve better results when it comes to tuning of some of the newer vehicles. It does possibly make things a little more complex and expensive.

I postulate all a vehicle will need to run HHO effectively is an additional sensor and possibly a pump control such as this. Of course, the HHO generator will not be just a constant run unit, but will have to be able to match it's output to the load of the engine to some degree and rapidity.

I always used the idea of increasing rail pressure to increase injector flow as boost increased. But MadSceintist's idea of reducing pressure to lean out fuel is doable. I will certainly try the idea.

[ultra_efficient]

Hi,

I have a strange behavior with my Fuel Trim and I want to know if this is because I inject the wrong amount of gas or my Dual WideBand EFIE is wrong adjusted

Here is my setup

Road Test: 220 km (Go 110 and retourn 110)
HHO: 7 amp
Dual WideBand EFIE - Wideband at 9 o'clock (¼ turn) and narrowband at 125 mV

Car without HHO and without EFIE (STOCK)

If I reset the ECU and I have traveled this route, SF1 is between -1 to 2 but it very often to 0 or 1. For its part, the LF1 is -1 to 1 but very very often 0. These values ​​are taken on plane road

Fuel Consumption: 34 MPG us

Car with HHO and EFIE

If I reset the ECU and I have traveled this route, SF1 is between -1 to 5 but it very often to 2 or 3. For its part, the LF1 is +1 to +3 but very very often +2. These values ​​are taken on plane road. When the road becomes a gentle slope and the car must force the SF1 decreases to values ​​up to -5.

Fuel Consumption: 37 MPG us


Observations

During City driving, the SF1 is almost always in negative values ​​and the LF1 is still in negative values ​​(When it comes time to fill up , LF1 is usually to -4)

City Fuel Consumption when stock: 28.7 MPG US
City Fuel Consumption with HHO and EFIE stock: 25.5 MPG US


If I understood correctly, in this context, Fuel Trim (in response to sensors) tell the ECU to increase the injector pulse duration. Am I to conclude that the oxygen sensor is a surplus of oxygen (low ratio) and they give the order to inject more fuel

What should I do to achieve better fuel economy ?

Thanks in advance

Apexi VAFC2

[reopheus]

Well, just to say if you want really good mileage and aren't worried with the check engine light or have to bother with inspections, you could put everything back to stock, then leave the o2's unplugged(not recommended for legal reasons in the U.S.) and cut out fuel from the pump by limiting the voltage to the pump. Of coarse with the HHO!
If you produce enough HHO then I would also insert a reducer in the intake tube or filter housing. Such as to reduce by 1/4 to 1/3 your current diameter.

What does this do and Why ???

With no o2's, your computer will have a base setting for fuel usage and use the load and throttle to determine consumption. There for cutting back fuel manually from its source will reduce your fuel consumption! I have found in past running that 5. to 7.5 volts will run everything just fine even with a load. The HHO makes up for the needed missing power to perform and run. You can run more HHO due the fact the o2's can't pick up the oxygen content !!!!!
The reduction in the tube is so that the added oxygen from the HHO is not increased by the intake!!

I was wondering what vehicle it is
I want to try the same thing I have a 2009 chev silverado I found some controller on ebay how many amps do i need
thanks