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Thread: Voltrolysis a reality

  1. Default Voltrolysis a reality

    I need two things on my HHO system, a MAF enhancer that works on early decade GM sensors and 2-3+ lpm output. Hate running +20A thru my V6 alternator. I just think it would fry in the heat of summer. Just not getting any big mileage boost so far. So the solution: voltrolysis- high voltage low amp HHO generation aka Stan Meyers.

    People, pay attention, lots of brave souls on the internet have reverse engineered Stan Meyers WFC! They are doing it big time, able to crank out 15lpm, looking at running entirely on water. Got to youtube and check out "irondmax". He is selling the electronics too, cheap.

    Stanley Meyer Webshop

    going to try the Lawton circuit first, should be able to get 3-5 lpm for just a few amps. got that at Dave Lawton - Electrolysers
    Last edited by sampojo; 10-12-2012 at 11:56 AM.

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    Default H2 is still dependent on amperage.

    Quote Originally Posted by sampojo View Post
    I need two things on my HHO system, a MAF enhancer that works on early decade GM sensors and 2-3+ lpm output. Hate running +20A thru my V6 alternator. I just think it would fry in the heat of summer. Just not getting any big mileage boost so far. So the solution: voltrolysis- high voltage low amp HHO generation aka Stan Meyers.

    People, pay attention, lots of brave souls on the internet have reverse engineered Stan Meyers WFC! They are doing it big time, able to crank out 15lpm, looking at running entirely on water. Got to youtube and check out "irondmax". He is selling the electronics too, cheap.

    Stanley Meyer Webshop

    going to try the Lawton circuit first, should be able to get 3-5 lpm for just a few amps. got that at Dave Lawton - Electrolysers
    Each proton needs an electron or it will re-connect with the oxygen atom and form water all over again. High voltage can and does dissociate the water but without the electron flow you will get water once the field potential is removed.

    The Lawton circuits seem to ignore this fact. They do seem to produce HHO with good efficiency, but no magical over unity.

    "Resonance" might dissociate water molecules, but sadly, there is no magical frequency that Keanu Reeves can use to blow up a research facility. And if there were, you would still need two electrons and two holes to provide the electron balance to produce HHO. That is amperage.

    Irondmax has entertaining videos but he does nothing new. His 15 lpm unit is plugged into the WALL power! Run 220 volts though a power diode bridge to rectify it into DC and use the 300+ volts to push large currents through several large plate cells, large enough so they don't over heat, and put up a fun video on youtube and ask for investment money.

    The problem is, savvy investors will bring someone who actually knows a thing or two and will reverse engineer such devices and will tell the investors to walk away.

    Using our current flow through multiple series cells gives us more efficiency. Plate material and spacing can help us increase the number of cells at a given source voltage. Electrolyte type, strength and temperature can reduce voltage needs per cell. Members of this forum can, and do, produce effective electrolysis generators based on these time proven principles.

    Effective and consistent application is the problem.

  3. Default Voltrolysis cont'd

    Hey Rusty, thanks for the sanity check. Definitely going to keep my eye on the 220 v thingy from irond. But thought I saw a lot of vids with low amps. What I get from all the Stan work is you get a resonating LC circuit which goes to higher and higher volts, choking down the current. This is occurring based on flyback voltage harvesting in the circuit. So the charge gets so high that it rips apart the molecule which has prominences at molecular distances of exposed polarity. So the fields align the water molecule accordingly and get so high that they rip it apart. Some people say the two fields associated with energy input and flyback are totally separate and this is how the zero point energy may be harvested in a Nikolai Tesla world. The molecules are neutral before and after without conventional electrolysis.

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    Default I have looked at Zero Point Power.

    Quote Originally Posted by sampojo View Post
    Hey Rusty, thanks for the sanity check. Definitely going to keep my eye on the 220 v thingy from irond. But thought I saw a lot of vids with low amps. What I get from all the Stan work is you get a resonating LC circuit which goes to higher and higher volts, choking down the current. This is occurring based on flyback voltage harvesting in the circuit. So the charge gets so high that it rips apart the molecule which has prominences at molecular distances of exposed polarity. So the fields align the water molecule accordingly and get so high that they rip it apart. Some people say the two fields associated with energy input and flyback are totally separate and this is how the zero point energy may be harvested in a Nikolai Tesla world. The molecules are neutral before and after without conventional electrolysis.
    The Bearden Papers are mathematical theory. Instead of trying to describe the physical world with mathematics, he does the math and tries to make the physical world match his math. And people cling to this, holding this up as proof of Zero Point energy.

    Flyback voltage is a fact. You can measure it and harness it. A Japanese electric scooter manufacturer used a motor that took advantage of it. It did gain measurable efficiency for the same wattage of electrical energy used. But the additional costs did not warrant its widespread adoption - better batteries increased range for less cost.

    Molecular alignment of water is a fact when strong enough fields are applied. You can "rip them apart" not just with a resonant frequency to the magnetic field but with any energy input such as kenetic ( heat or atomic bombardment, etc.).

    Now, comes the problem.

    The molecules are now elemental oxygen and hydrogen. You say the molecules were "neutral before . . . ". Yes they were as the hydrogen shared in the use of the oxygen valence electron cloud. " . . . and after". So, please tell me what state of neutrality can O-- and H+ be in after the water is ripped apart? How does the so called orthonormal fly-back magnetic field and the resonant EMF result in these Neutral elements? Why was it that common HHO was found as the output gas in Meyer's cells if little to no current was used to provide the electrons needed for neutral elements?

    Please feel free to answer in specifics and to a degree that does the subject justice.

    And I have seen those self propelling generators with the low current HHO banks feeding them. I have made a tidy sum of money debunking them for my investors. The trick is simple and most anyone can induce the same behavior from a generator with some efforts. I have done it on my welding generator. I will leave the trick uncovered for the time being as I like making easy money.

    Oh, and thanks ahead of time for this discussion. I enjoy this sort of thing.
    Last edited by RustyLugNut; 10-24-2012 at 03:39 PM. Reason: Additions.

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RustyLugNut View Post
    The molecules are now elemental oxygen and hydrogen. You say the molecules were "neutral before . . . ". Yes they were as the hydrogen shared in the use of the oxygen valence electron cloud. " . . . and after". So, please tell me what state of neutrality can O-- and H+ be in after the water is ripped apart? How does the so called orthonormal fly-back magnetic field and the resonant EMF result in these Neutral elements? Why was it that common HHO was found as the output gas in Meyer's cells if little to no current was used to provide the electrons needed for neutral elements?

    I have not only watched every Meyer video I think there is but I also have played with my own for some time. I went off the theory he had and for some time had trouble figuring out what was going on. Stan wasn't creating a heap of HHO ! He was at first with his tall cell that the buggy idled off of. But he went forward with a new means of getting the car to accelerate instead of just idling. He began to disassociate the molecules "rip them apart" in the "laser" chamber, and decided to magnetize the HHO just prior to injection. Then he again advanced to the spark injector, that gave him control over the ignition at the point of the water entering the cylinder, in addition to the HHO, disassociated and magnetized ambient air which he has restricted, and the recirculated and metered exhaust that is all ran through the injection system. There was and is a lot of things that Stan Meyers had patents on, so some are confused to be a part of the whole. Not all of these things go together as some would suspect, the latter has no use with the earlier parts and equipment. He advanced with a full redo of his system. You can see this if you pay close attention to everything.

    I believe (can not prove) that generally testing these theories is quite a bit different then what goes on in the actual use of this process as it consumes the HHO and other things in such a fast environment, that it makes it near impossible to say what is the true state of the HHO at combustion. As with my own experimenting, I can only try to understand why it makes a noticeable difference when the HHO is magnetized verses not. DISASSOCIATION, is of use.
    Last edited by Madsceintist; 10-24-2012 at 08:33 PM.
    Its done right or its not done !
    Hail HHO.

  6. Default college chem lapse

    Quote Originally Posted by sampojo View Post
    The molecules are neutral before and after without conventional electrolysis.
    Quote Originally Posted by RustyLugNut View Post
    So, please tell me what state of neutrality can O-- and H+ be in after the water is ripped apart?
    Great Point Rusty, got to blow out the cobwebs on my chemistry... The brown's gas folks talk of ortho-hydrogen and para-hydrogen. I wonder what odd ionized gaseous molecules of what potential energy are created then, and will they still go boom when hit by a spark...

    BUT I guess I am saying the O-- would like to keep the extra e's but has to cough them up?
    Last edited by sampojo; 10-25-2012 at 11:52 AM.

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sampojo View Post
    Great Point Rusty, got to blow out the cobwebs on my chemistry... The brown's gas folks talk of ortho-hydrogen and para-hydrogen. I wonder what odd ionized gaseous molecules of what potential energy are created then, and will they still go boom when hit by a spark...

    BUT I guess I am saying the O-- would like to keep the extra e's but has to cough them up?
    We have discussed extensively para and ortho hydrogen on this forum. Do a search. It is of little value to us in the chemical physics realm. The energy differences to ortho and para are trivial in the amounts we produce in our HHO generators.

    I was speaking of the longitudinal wave from your flyback transformer and the small energy input. According to over unity theory, the input field must be mathematically orthogonal to the EM wave of the transformer. Longitudinal EM waves goes against classic theory, but I'll assume this to be true for the sake of the discussion. I just want to know where your input field comes from in the Meyers generator.

    And oxygen doesn't want to give up it's electrons. In the presence of hydrogen, it has the much more massive nucleus and it is able to hang on to it's electron cloud. Hydrogen thus loses out and has no electron giving it a + value. O-- and H+ do exist in the outer reaches of our universe, along with other elemental ions. However, this is due to their relative dispersion at the big bang or some other exploding star. They are spread apart too thinly for electrostatic attraction or gravity to pull them rapidly together.

    In our chambers, they are close and they rapidly reform back to water. You can see this phenomenon in acoustic resonance chambers (cavitation), EMF resonant chamber (micro wave heating) and photon heating. Microscopic bubbles form and collapse rapidly as steam, O-- and H+ are formed and reform to water rapidly. You must provide a way for oxygen to give up its electrons and become neutral. Hydrogen needs to get those electrons so it can be neutral. Without current, how does your input energy result in these neutral elements? And energy is needed or all you get is water all over again.
    Last edited by RustyLugNut; 10-25-2012 at 03:57 PM. Reason: Spelling.

  8. Default what types of investigation done.

    Quote Originally Posted by RustyLugNut View Post
    And oxygen doesn't want to give up it's electrons. In the presence of hydrogen, it has the much more massive nucleus and it is able to hang on to it's electron cloud. Hydrogen thus loses out and has no electron giving it a + value. O-- and H+ do exist in the outer reaches of our universe, along with other elemental ions. However, this is due to their relative dispersion at the big bang or some other exploding star. They are spread apart too thinly for electrostatic attraction or gravity to pull them rapidly together.

    In our chambers, they are close and they rapidly reform back to water. You can see this phenomenon in acoustic resonance chambers (cavitation), EMF resonant chamber (micro wave heating) and photon heating. Microscopic bubbles form and collapse rapidly as steam, O-- and H+ are formed and reform to water rapidly.
    I can't tell if you have investigated other ways of splitting water molecules or specifically have successfully hooked up a high voltage Meyer type circuit and run it to some extent to generate this problematic gaseous mix. You can't say exactly what is in a Meyer-type HV circuit unless you got something working and did some gas chromatography. Are there any models of what anything does when subjected to high voltage?

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    Default Everything I quoted was from classic physics.

    Quote Originally Posted by sampojo View Post
    I can't tell if you have investigated other ways of splitting water molecules or specifically have successfully hooked up a high voltage Meyer type circuit and run it to some extent to generate this problematic gaseous mix. You can't say exactly what is in a Meyer-type HV circuit unless you got something working and did some gas chromatography. Are there any models of what anything does when subjected to high voltage?
    I am asking YOU if you have found anything of value from your Meyer's circuit or Lawton circuit or any other related mechanism. High voltage resonant circuits are not unique to the Meyer system. They are an everyday part of science and industry. My background is in nuclear accelerators. We use such circuits.

    High voltage dissociation of pure water is part of the data for insulation breakdown voltage. Large assemblies in high voltage situations can be and often are surrounded by pure water as an insulator. The situation is not as simple as a value for the dielectric constant of water vs other insulators as time is a variable that needs to be taken into account as water moves and the formation of one ion quickly escalates to more and breakdown becomes rapid and electrolysis quickly starts. Look up water breakdown tests done at Sandia or Los Alamos or Fermi. They must publish since they are government funded and I think you will find much information there. The bottom line is pure water can take up to 6 MEGA VOLTS! Before breakdown. But if the field is held longer than 3 MICRO seconds, the ionic content in the water quickly multiplies and you have breakdown and electrolysis begins, assuming there is a path for current flow.

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