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Thread: help with some issues !

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by RustyLugNut View Post
    Hydro is stored energy - mass at a higher gravitational potential. How did it get that potential? Solar distillation and precipitation.

    Where does solar energy come from? A fusion reaction - which is slowly running out of fuel.

    What we are talking about is the use of energy carriers. You cannot create more energy than you put in. This is what the over unity people profess to have. Nature doesn't have it. Neither does man.

    Since I must be uneducated, I will humor this one more step with the question; What about the big bang theory?

    This brings into question, of stored energy, how much is still around us that we have yet to unlock.
    Also the fact that even the high and mighty 'scientists' and 'scholars', seem to change their facts on evolution and things of matter, every so often. As in the fact that "cold fusion isn't possible", but then that was found to be NOT true! Ooooppps .... Must have missed that one some how. Or as I like to see it, it hadn't been discovered yet so therefor, it like many other things are possible, even when some cries that its not.
    Its done right or its not done !
    Hail HHO.

  2. #22
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    You are straying from the discussion again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Madsceintist View Post
    Since I must be uneducated, I will humor this one more step with the question; What about the big bang theory?

    This brings into question, of stored energy, how much is still around us that we have yet to unlock.
    Also the fact that even the high and mighty 'scientists' and 'scholars', seem to change their facts on evolution and things of matter, every so often. As in the fact that "cold fusion isn't possible", but then that was found to be NOT true! Ooooppps .... Must have missed that one some how. Or as I like to see it, it hadn't been discovered yet so therefor, it like many other things are possible, even when some cries that its not.
    New theories must follow the ones that precede it. They extend them and sometimes supplant. But as we move forward, it does mean there is more to work with. Unlocked energy as you put it will still follow what came before.

    Scholars change theories. It is part of science. Evidence builds forward and so does the theories that surround them and at some point they become theorems and principles. But it doesn't mean you discard what came before. Newtonian physics works for the macro world but not always for the nuclear world and the quantum world. But it still works.

    None of the energy streams you have mentioned break the paraphrased rule of "energy out cannot exceed the energy input". None of them. Not even the nuclear reactions which follow Einsteins mass/energy relationship.

    And the big bang theory is a theory. Conservation of Energy and Entropy/Enthalpy are FACT.

    And to "humor" in the ways of Aristotle is to imply superiority.

  3. #23
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    Yep............ off the path of for sure.

    You asked to name one 'free energy' source that is used by man and nature, so that led us here. My mistake.

    So where would you lead the conversation with a statement that water is both an energy source and a carrier? This only leads to much debate but has valid foundation.
    Just curious.....

    Peace.........
    Its done right or its not done !
    Hail HHO.

  4. #24
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    You brought up the Big Bang Theory . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Madsceintist View Post
    Yep............ off the path of for sure.

    You asked to name one 'free energy' source that is used by man and nature, so that led us here. My mistake.

    So where would you lead the conversation with a statement that water is both an energy source and a carrier? This only leads to much debate but has valid foundation.
    Just curious.....

    Peace.........
    . . . that is a theory. Until something better comes along. That is your CONTINUED mistake! You do not have a clear and concise understanding of the words you use.

    But, you are mixing up theories and theorems. Notice the difference? Theories will change. Theorems and their principles are working facts we can build with. The theory of relativity is under some change and attack given certain peculiarities but components of it are rock certain and we can use them with no doubt - E=mc*c still gives us the description for energy mass transfer.

    And you are mixing up energy streams vs energy source. Except for gravitational potential which was created at the big bang, most of the energy we have around us is either nuclear or stored nuclear energy at it's root who's elements were created at the big bang. Even the geothermal heat below us is nuclear. Only tidal energy potential is not nuclear, being of gravitational nature along with kinetic differential potentials. All the energy that ever is, was or will be, was created at the big bang. Entropy dictates that concentrated energy will become more diffuse after use and at some distant future, all this will collapse back into one concentrated point of mass/energy only to be distributed once more in another cycle of the big bang. That is THEORY based on working theorems and principles. The working theorems and principles don't change, the theory will.

    Solar energy is the biggest source of energy for life and stored energy forms. As I mentioned, solar causes hydro energy, direct solar and also most of our fossil energy in the form of stored hydrocarbons that once were living organisms. Other than a small percent of abiotic oil which is more than likely geological in nature. Our hydrocarbon reserves were created over eons and are finite.

    Take away the sun and you have no life on this earth and no hydro or wind power or fossil fuels. They carry the sun's energy.

    Take away the energy that splits the water in your water energy system and you have water. Nothing else. The ash of oxidation.

    Free energy proponents do what capitalistic economies sometimes do and perform creative accounting to initiate the production of $101 dollars from an input of $100. That is just inflation until the GNP catches up.

    Your electrolysis to split water to power an ICE to run a generator to power the electrolysis cell is a closed loop system that can run like the big bang - if it were truly closed loop and all your inefficiencies did not detract from your energy pile and defuse it out into the surroundings outside your closed loop. Since you are extracting work to a point OUTSIDE your loop, even at a 100% efficiency, your system will run down. You must have an input into your loop of at least the equivalent to the energy your are extracting.

    All over unity machines must work on this natural principle. Their seeming over unity is just some inventor not doing his energy accounting correctly. If it does extract energy from the "ether" or "zero point", it will still follow the rules of energy that have come before.

    So far, all I have seen is THEORIES from the over unity camp. No solid theorems and principles have come out - principles that you can build with with factual certainty like Newton and Einstein's principles to name a few. That is why you do not see an over unit generator in every home and business. You must circumvent the natural laws in THIS universe to get them to work. I don't see that happening. Or you must tap the energy from someplace outside the loop - some other dimension for example - for it to work. OU (over unity) proponents have not shown this to be possible, how much more, practical.

    So, please explain to me the magical power of water that allows you to reach outside the loop and create an excess of useable power? Please use natural LAWS to build your theories. That way, maybe you can eventually work towards principles that become working theorems. Otherwise, your words are little more than the hocus pocus mumbo jumbo the witch doctor in the village I grew up in used to create his "magic".

  5. #25
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    free energy

    the waves are free energy in the sea.. gravity. and magnets and magnetism olar, wind, natural earth conductivity, radio waves, off the top of my head.

  6. #26
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    Look at where those energy streams get their original energy.

    Quote Originally Posted by james67 View Post
    the waves are free energy in the sea.. gravity. and magnets and magnetism olar, wind, natural earth conductivity, radio waves, off the top of my head.
    Magnetism is the only anomaly. Workable and well understood except to why it works the way it does. To a degree, so is gravity.

    The rest are not "free". They come from somewhere. I answered this in my post above.

    It still doesn't answer the question of how OU devices extract energy into their working envelope. Please understand THAT or else all we get is a religio/political discussion which will get us nowhere.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by RustyLugNut View Post
    Magnetism is the only anomaly. Workable and well understood except to why it works the way it does. To a degree, so is gravity.

    The rest are not "free". They come from somewhere. I answered this in my post above.

    It still doesn't answer the question of how OU devices extract energy into their working envelope. Please understand THAT or else all we get is a religio/political discussion which will get us nowhere.
    really? how much do you pay for sunshine or win or those other things?
    personally i get them free

  8. #28
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    We are talking about the so called Over Unity use of "Free".

    Quote Originally Posted by james67 View Post
    really? how much do you pay for sunshine or win or those other things?
    personally i get them free
    Your use of "free" is economical and is not always "free" even in that sense.

    It is obvious to the reader that you still do not understand an energy "source" and an energy "carrier". This is why OU supporters get in trouble. Lack of understanding.

  9. #29
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    Look there is NO way that you, I, or anyone else will satisfy Rusty or his type, here or elsewhere. Unless of coarse you are from his village and you are the real deal so to speak when it comes to one proving the "magic" that he seeks us to prove !
    He wants us to be the teacher and explain to him that quantum physics apply to everything, including waking up in the morning. The fact is that things do wind down, as in wear down, wear out, cease to work over a period of time. Yes as we know and understand, everything has to have some sort of energy input ! NO doubt. His view or vision on the point at hand is of his learning of his teachers and his beliefs of the scientific realm, which also tends to change their beliefs and findings.

    Rusty's arguments go untouched by this simple basis of his bombardment of those on here(which some do need it), that even gasoline has the same problem as he argues HHO does! I.E.;

    Rusty says if you take away a part of the system that runs HHO, that you will run out of your energy to power the system.
    Well if you run out of or take away gasoline, you will run out of what is needed to run your system that charges and runs your gasoline ran system just the same. NO ????????

    He keeps expressing the closed loop system !!! YES ?????


    Nothing that I can recall that we as people use for fuels or energy supplies, have a truly closed loop system. All that I know of need to be refueled in some way, even nuclear power plants!
    Its done right or its not done !
    Hail HHO.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madsceintist View Post
    Look there is NO way that you, I, or anyone else will satisfy Rusty or his type, here or elsewhere. Unless of coarse you are from his village and you are the real deal so to speak when it comes to one proving the "magic" that he seeks us to prove !
    He wants us to be the teacher and explain to him that quantum physics apply to everything, including waking up in the morning. The fact is that things do wind down, as in wear down, wear out, cease to work over a period of time. Yes as we know and understand, everything has to have some sort of energy input ! NO doubt. His view or vision on the point at hand is of his learning of his teachers and his beliefs of the scientific realm, which also tends to change their beliefs and findings.

    Rusty's arguments go untouched by this simple basis of his bombardment of those on here(which some do need it), that even gasoline has the same problem as he argues HHO does! I.E.;

    Rusty says if you take away a part of the system that runs HHO, that you will run out of your energy to power the system.
    Well if you run out of or take away gasoline, you will run out of what is needed to run your system that charges and runs your gasoline ran system just the same. NO ????????

    He keeps expressing the closed loop system !!! YES ?????


    Nothing that I can recall that we as people use for fuels or energy supplies, have a truly closed loop system. All that I know of need to be refueled in some way, even nuclear power plants!

    closed loop as in a perpetual motion.. a bad word for these folks
    interesting extreme used to dispel the idea of long lasting free energy, kinda of tactical ploy.. howbeit claims are made over the years for a self sustaining machine, i cant guarantee these things but neither can i dismiss them, because some payed off big energy types dismiss the very notion.
    but when one tests these things and try to tell others, they them-self are put under the gun.

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