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Thread: 06 Dodge RAM 2500 5.9L Diesel 4X4 LB Laramie

  1. #1

    Default 06 Dodge RAM 2500 5.9L Diesel 4X4 LB Laramie

    This is what I have so far on this project:
    1. 2-11 Plate Cell Kit from http://www.hho2u.com
    2. Dual Edge MAP Enhancer from http://www.fuelsaver-mpg.com/map-maf...e-map-enhancer
    3. HHO Dryer www.hydrogen-generators-usa.com/DIY_Hydrogen.html
    4. KZX1250 PWM from www.adicorp.net
    5. A lot of help from http://www.HHO4Free.com
    6. Space is limited, fabricated 2 triangular brackets to mount to frame
    7. Mounted both cells to to triangular brackets using isolation vibration mounts. Diesels shake ya know. Bought them from http://VibrationMounts.com
    8. Bought KOH (Potassium Hydroxide) for catalyst
    9. All electrical connections will be coated with NO-OX-ID conductive grease to prevent corrosion.
    10. Will be fabricating bracket to mount Reservoir Tank.
    11. 2 - Stewart Warner Ammeters to be mounted inside the cab. One for each cell, to keep an eye on them individually.

    I have an issue regarding cold weather and introducing the HHO before the turbo. This truck doesn't use glow plugs, but has an air heater element that's just before the intake manifold. It what gets red hot when your waiting for the coil indicator to turn off on the instrument panel.

    The problem is that while sitting and idling long enough while it's cold out, the sensors will automatically turn this coil on to heat the air. If the HHO is being generated and hits this hot coil, what will be the outcome? Flashback all the way to the HHO system? An explosion? DOES ANYONE HAVE AN ANSWER TO THIS ISSUE?

    Also I read a post from koya1893 that he's introducing the HHO after the turbo. I wonder exactly how he does it to get enough pressure behind the HHO to overcome the Boost pressure.

    One more FYI is that I am using the K&N Cold Air Intake System.

    Any help would be much appreciated.

    I started this project back in March 2012 and am hoping to get it completed before the year is out.
    Last edited by Crevice Dog; 11-06-2012 at 11:46 AM.
    Crevice Dog
    '06 Dodge RAM 2500 5.9L 4X4 LB Laramie / K&N Cold Air Intake System / Edge Insight CTS w/Pyrometer

  2. Default

    I have an issue regarding cold weather and introducing the HHO before the turbo. This truck doesn't use glow plugs, but has an air heater element that's just before the intake manifold. It what gets red hot when your waiting for the coil indicator to turn off on the instrument panel.

    The problem is that while sitting and idling long enough while it's cold out, th sensors will automatically turn this coil on to heat the air. If the HHO is being generated and hits this hot coil, what will be the outcome? Flashback all the way to the HHO system? An explosion? DOES ANYONE HAVE AN ANSWER TO THIS ISSUE?

    Also I read a post from koya1893 that he's introducing the HHO after the turbo. I wonder exactly how he does it to get enough pressure behind the HHO to overcome the Boost pressure.
    To answer this question correctly one has to understand how your system is set up. Does the HHO reactor come on with the key or only when the engine is running? How much HHO are you actually injecting? If it is set up correctly and the reactor only comes on when the engine is running then there should not be a problem. If the volume of HHO in the intake is less than 4 % and well mixed then there is also no problem. Most systems are not generating enough HHO to cause any problems.

    Here is a side note. On large diesel engines HHO is also used in extremely cold weather as a starting fluid and a method to heat up the batteries before starting. What happens is by running the HHO generator on a timed switch for safety so enough HHO is in the system before starting, the batteries get warmed up by the reactor drawing some amps so when they hit the starter the HHO and warmed up battery helps start the engine very easily. Even in this case there is no chance of a flash back if the volume of HHO is under 4% in relation to air/fuel.

    As far as injecting after the turbo I will let Koya explain that but it is much easier then one thinks. There are some safety issues depending on how your system is setup but nothing that is difficult to solve. These issues have to do with pressure in the system when the HHO reactor is off and the turbo is still making pressure. I solve this with an electronic valve the same one that I use for water injection which closes while coasting (HHO is off while coasting in my system) or when ever the HHO reactor is not generating any HHO. There must also be enough time/distance from the point of injection to the intake to mix the HHO properly so all cylinders get the same charge.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb."

    ONE Liter per minute per 10 amps which just isn't possible Ha Ha .

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by myoldyourgold View Post
    To answer this question correctly one has to understand how your system is set up. Does the HHO reactor come on with the key or only when the engine is running? How much HHO are you actually injecting? If it is set up correctly and the reactor only comes on when the engine is running then there should not be a problem. If the volume of HHO in the intake is less than 4 % and well mixed then there is also no problem. Most systems are not generating enough HHO to cause any problems.

    Here is a side note. On large diesel engines HHO is also used in extremely cold weather as a starting fluid and a method to heat up the batteries before starting. What happens is by running the HHO generator on a timed switch for safety so enough HHO is in the system before starting, the batteries get warmed up by the reactor drawing some amps so when they hit the starter the HHO and warmed up battery helps start the engine very easily. Even in this case there is no chance of a flash back if the volume of HHO is under 4% in relation to air/fuel.

    As far as injecting after the turbo I will let Koya explain that but it is much easier then one thinks. There are some safety issues depending on how your system is setup but nothing that is difficult to solve. These issues have to do with pressure in the system when the HHO reactor is off and the turbo is still making pressure. I solve this with an electronic valve the same one that I use for water injection which closes while coasting (HHO is off while coasting in my system) or when ever the HHO reactor is not generating any HHO. There must also be enough time/distance from the point of injection to the intake to mix the HHO properly so all cylinders get the same charge.
    First let me say thank you for responding, and sorry it's taking me so long to get back. Having a couple of family crises back in IL that's eating a lot of my time right now, and I live in Vancouver, WA. As the system is yet to be installed, I'm still working out the design of it all, as I keep finding out more and more... But everything I've listed I have. I also updated the list again. None of it is in the truck yet. Here are my plans so far:

    1. The KZX1250 PWM will only allow current to the cells, once it senses alternator voltage being supplied to the battery(s).
    2. I downloaded the free HHOCalculator.exe program from www.HHO4Free.com. Within the calculations, running the 2 cells at 10 amps each would generate a total of 2.088 LPM of HHO. The suggested max amps however is 5.59 amps for these cells due to increased erosion rate of the stainless steel plates. So it'll take some life out of the plates faster.
    3. As for figuring out the percentage of HHO to air, I'm not certain on how to calculate that. Also if I increased the amps to 15 amps per cell it calculated out for a total output of 3.132 LPM.
    4. Living in Vancouver, WA, extreme cold weather is really non-existent. Should I get into a cold one, I'll keep the info in mind, so thanks for sharing it.
    5. The PWM can be set to reduce the amperage through setting of the duty cycle, thereby reducing HHO output until you accelerate. I hope I'm stating this correctly. But basically this unit is built to protect the vehicle's electrical system, by not overloading the alternator when at idle. There's a good video, and an Operator's Manual at: http://www.adicorp.net/php/kzx1250_order.php And a detailed explanation of all the fail safes built into it here: http://www.adicorp.net/php/why-the-KZX1250.php
    6. I also plan to connect the kill switch on my Map Enhancer to the PWM, so I can manually shut off the HHO system for any reason.
    7. As for the location of the PWM I have 2 choices, either attach it to the heat shield that surrounds the K&N Air Filter to keep it cool, or inside the cab, which would be easier to adjust/set and watch.
    8. The electronic valve sounds like a good thing, can you give me the manufacturer, part desc., part no., who to purchase from? I could hook it up to shut off the PWM while coasting/idle as you do. To quote a paragraph of the manual it states: "The disable terminal allows you to hook up as many turn off devices as your application requires. These devices are essential to bullet‐proof your system. Any connection to chassis ground will disable the KZX1250 output. You may use this for safety devices, such as temperature, water level, pressure switches on your Cell and/or just a simple toggle switch for when you donít want your Cell to operate."
    Thanks for all your input, and look forward to more!
    Crevice Dog
    '06 Dodge RAM 2500 5.9L 4X4 LB Laramie / K&N Cold Air Intake System / Edge Insight CTS w/Pyrometer

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by koya1893 View Post
    Forgive me if I screw this up, hey what do you expect from an "olde salty chief". Okay, when it comes with pressure in a big or small tube it is running through. the pressure is greated on the outer walls than the final exit, expecially at the furthers point the pressure is exiting. If you induce the HHO at the furthers point of the pressure, pressure is not as great if none existance. The rough photo I've attached is showing where I am inducing the HHO on my Ram. so when the pressure is low or great during accel, if the HHO is induced in the pressure path and at the furthers point it will not escape because the pressure is trying to escape on the outer wall of the tube. Hence the pressure will help pull the HHO from the induction point.

    I have several photo in numerious post, I have limited access at this time. Take a photo of your intake and post so I can download and point out where you can drill, tap and induce HHO. Your 5.9 loves HHO, water injection and WMO. Oh yeah, that wierd looking drawing is suppose to be your intake elbow, notice the dark flar area that is your intake manifold where the elbow is bolted to, in your case you probably have a heater grid. I have one on my 2012 3500 as well, you need to induce at the min 2.0 lpm to make any difference. I should have looked at the system you are talking about, those reactors are. How do I put this, oh yeah waste of your money. You have them so let's help you made used of them. If they are configured anything less than this: +NNNNN-NNNNN+NNNNN- You need to re-configure them. Oh yeah that small joke of a reservior you have, use it as a secodary res and get a bigger one for remote or just get a 6 gal unit they use for water injection and mount it on the bed. The bigger reservior you have the better your result.

    Alos, research the plans for the "waterless bubbler" I posted, it will make the world difference.
    Thank you also for responding, and it's good to work with another person who has a RAM! Again sorry for not responding sooner, ongoing family issues.
    Space is real tight around my engine. Yours is a bit bigger yet with the 6.7L, and plus you added even more stuff! I had a hard time finding space for the small reservoir tank I got with the kit. Why would the results improve with a larger tank BTW?
    1. Thank you for the drawing, and i did take a pic of my intake elbow and attached it. Not real clear on the whole pressure issue, but I'll take your word for it, it works! What is it exactly that you use for the inlet valve?
    2. So it's not a good idea to inject the HHO before the turbo? Just out of curiosity, and being ignorant on this, why? Too much heat from the exhaust heating up the turbo perhaps which heats up the air/HHO?
    3. My first concern about drilling & tapping the elbow is, I'm trying to keep this "under the radar" so when I get checked for emissions, should they look under the hood, I won't get busted. Here in WA, we have to go get our plate tags yearly. I'd probably remove all HHO evidence beforehand. So drilling and tapping and having an inlet would tend to leave something more permanent. I suppose maybe pulling the inlet and using a bolt for a plug may disguise it a bit.
      1. Do you know of any resources that may list states that don't vs do have a problem with this technology being installed?
    4. Also mounting the inlet this close, will it still allow the proper mixing of air to HHO, as myoldyourgold stated "There must also be enough time/distance from the point of injection to the intake to mix the HHO properly so all cylinders get the same charge."
    5. My funds are running low as I'm on SSD, and this has ended up costing a small fortune so far. Ok, enough whining... I will have to look further into water injection and WMO as well. Thanks for sharing that though. More goals. But I would like to see if at all possible to get some things set up in advance, so adding the water injection and WMO will be easier.
    6. As for the heater grid, yes, as you'll see in the pic, it has one too.
    7. So I took a look at my 2-11 plate cells or reactors (see attached photos) each is configured as: -NNNN+NNNN-. They have 3 holes lined up vertically in all the plates. One end the inlet is at the bottom hole, the output fitting is at the top hole of the plates on the opposite side. So what you're saying is, each cell needs 7 more plates reconfigured, or combine the 2 cells into 1 cell? In your plate configuration, does it matter which side is the input and output? Such as input from the res, is it the "-" or "+" end, or doesn't matter?
    8. I ran the HHOCalculator.exe on this 19 plate configuration and at 15 amps would get 2.819 LPM from it. 2 cells with 19 plates each running at 10 amps a piece would yield a total of 3.758 LPM. MYOLDYOURGOLD stated to keep the output to no more than 4% of the volume of the intake, which then wouldn't cause a flashback from the heater grid. So how much is too much if we're talking LPM's? Will the 2 cell configuration I currently have work well enough?
    9. As for the Waterless Bubbler, I found your post of the drawing. I had bought a Dryer, which does essentially the same. Only improvement on the Dryer would be to install a drain plug at the bottom of it, rather than having to unscrew the body off the top. I saw a YouTube video of a guy who made a filter out of PVC pipe and showed the difference in the flame off his torch with, and without the filter. I agree it will make a big difference. It had a clean burning flame. Plus that KOH is caustic and bad news on engine parts from what I found out.
    10. Besides the reservoir tank being essentially the first Bubbler, do see any reason to use a partially water filled 2ndary Bubbler before the Dryer or Waterless Bubbler?
    11. Finally, what is the water injection system you both are using
    Thanks for all your input, and sorry for so many questions. Looking forward to your response.
    Attached Images
    Last edited by Crevice Dog; 11-11-2012 at 11:38 PM.
    Crevice Dog
    '06 Dodge RAM 2500 5.9L 4X4 LB Laramie / K&N Cold Air Intake System / Edge Insight CTS w/Pyrometer

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by koya1893 View Post
    Quick reply to one of your questions:

    I reverese engineered those reactor you have, you will need four of those to to fed your truck after you re-configured them. Notice they only have four "bipolar" plater, AKA "N" plates.

    I have a 6 gal reservior mounted in the toolbox of my truck, the bigger reservior you have the less chance your system will overheat, especially if you re-configure your reactors to the following:

    +NNNNN-NNNNN+, notice you have one more "N" plate or you can go with six "N" plates to keep the voltage down to 1.9v between each plate.

    I will dowload your photo and work on showing you where to drill and induce the HHO. You will need to remove the intake, as far as the water injection. It will assist in keeping the EGT down and assist in a complete burn, as HHO will combined the two. Your truck will come alive with better fuel economy.
    I was wondering if you have any pics of your installation that you could share. Such as where you mounted your cells or reactors.

    So I will now need 2 more cells in addition to the 2 that I have already. Or do you call each side of the "-" plate a reactor? Plus they will each need the added plates.

    I also saw one of your posts that you told someone to use this same reactor configuration, and you stated the "-" center plate should have no holes. So on each acrylic end plate, I'd need another threaded hole with a barbed fitting for the HHO to return/escape? Or just keep it as is flowing from one end to the other?

    I do have the PWM that will stop any thermal runaway by setting the limit on the amps. I have a canopy on my truck and it will be a pain to fill a tank back there. I'll see if I can get a bit larger tank to go under the hood, but space is really limited.

    Also I read that you stated for the 2 battery system to use the passenger side battery, correct?

    I'm getting to the point of feeling like I need to draw a schematic of all this. I also purchased 2 Ammeters to mount in the cab, but if what I think your saying is correct, I'll need 2 more. I just want to keep an eye on each cell's performance. The PWM shows total amps being drawn, but if there's a problem with one it won't show.

    BTW-What water injection system did you settle on? I'll need to do this down the road when I have a bit more money.

    Thanks for your help!
    Crevice Dog
    '06 Dodge RAM 2500 5.9L 4X4 LB Laramie / K&N Cold Air Intake System / Edge Insight CTS w/Pyrometer

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