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Thread: Retrofit PWM to Throttle

  1. Default Retrofit PWM to Throttle

    Im not sure if I touched on this before. While I'm rather inactive with my HHO project I'm still wondering about this subject. Has anyone been able to rig a pwm to the throttle body that way HHO is only produced in direct correlation to the amount of air flowing into the engine?
    Granted the production would not be as fast to respond as the engines air intake but when cruising with a relatively slow change in throttle position this could prove beneficial as to not waste HHO and to provide the ideal amount. Any thoughts?

  2. #2
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    Yep, better yet it is MAP sensor based (0||5v). I will post details in a new thread once I get the time to complete the install. Not enough hobby time lately

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    So you would reroute the map sensor signal wire to the PWM to cause the amps to the cell to increase or decrease with the voltage of the MAP sensor readings?
    That is an interesting approach.

    My idea is more mechanical I suppose. And then HHO would not be wasted when the throttle is closed and you are still moving in gear. itd be a simple retrofit to the throttle body. or for a signal based like the map sensor, fitting it to the TPS signal wire.

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    Stevo, I have found on some vehicles the MAP signal changes very quickly almost erratically depending on both the vehicle and the driver. So much so, that the reactor can not react that fast and in one case was on seemingly most of the time except with large changes over extended periods of time and in another was off for long periods of time. I also found that in some cases it worked somewhat satisfactory but still not as good as I wanted. To make things more difficult the vehicles were commercial vehicles that had very little down time so had to do most of the testing while they were working, which was good for some testing but not for others. I am still working on a solution. I first thought it was a faulty MAP and changed it out but that made no difference on all the vehicles that were having a problem. The other problem is that there is a number of vehicles that use a frequency signal instead of a 0-5 volt signal. I am sure there is a solution and will find it soon because I am going to have some good equipment to test on here shortly and some expert hands on help to speed things up.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb."

    ONE Liter per minute per 10 amps which just isn't possible Ha Ha .

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    So if there are issues with doing it electrically, why not mechanically?
    It wouldnt work with diesel engines, but gas engines I see no problems during highway driving.

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    There are issues doing it no matter how you do it. They are all solvable though just takes time and money. LOL The problem is the delivery of on demand HHO is not as controlled as the delivery of fuel and air. Because of the difficulty to maintain the ratio of air/fuel/HHO over a wide range of engine demand, there is going to be problems, trade offs and plenty of room for improvement. Using the MAP/MAF is one of the methods that is used by the current fuel systems and is very accurate. I am sure a solution will be forth coming to control the HHO using the MAP/MAF and other sensors.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb."

    ONE Liter per minute per 10 amps which just isn't possible Ha Ha .

  7. Default

    Yeah I see. Id try the tb retrofit myself I see difficulties in fabricating it myself.

  8. #8
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    Man, I keep forgetting to manually subscribe to these threads I post in. Sorry guys!

    Anyway, myold I am working on an Arduino (open source micro controller) based solution and am currently writing the software to allow use of another very exciting open source project that plugs into any OBDII CAN (or older) bus. With this, we can read way more than just MAP, but also just about every sensor (which will come in standardized OBD data format). The cost of the system is approximately $120 USD if you source the parts yourself. So when mentioned MAP, I also meant any other readable sensor such as MAF or even TPS. I fully plan to open source the controller code on GitHub once ready for alpha. Right now my tests are utilizing a China made 50A (peak) robot motor driver module which is controlled via Arduino PWM. This system will not be like anything I have seen and the logic will be 100% tweakable granted you have the understanding. I could build in some potentiometers for min/max and gain control (to name a few), but I would have to charge for that system as it takes time to develop and I am in the red concerning time these days.

  9. Default

    Anyway, myold I am working on an Arduino (open source micro controller) based solution and am currently writing the software to allow use of another very exciting open source project that plugs into any OBDII CAN (or older) bus. With this, we can read way more than just MAP, but also just about every sensor (which will come in standardized OBD data format). The cost of the system is approximately $120 USD if you source the parts yourself. So when mentioned MAP, I also meant any other readable sensor such as MAF or even TPS. I fully plan to open source the controller code on GitHub once ready for alpha. Right now my tests are utilizing a China made 50A (peak) robot motor driver module which is controlled via Arduino PWM. This system will not be like anything I have seen and the logic will be 100% tweakable granted you have the understanding. I could build in some potentiometers for min/max and gain control (to name a few), but I would have to charge for that system as it takes time to develop and I am in the red concerning time these days.
    Stevo, that sounds really good. It is what the small vehicle needs. I only use the small vehicles to test on because the 30 plus liter engines/vehicles would not fit in my shop. LOL The other problem is they are all 24 volt. I am also looking for simple foolproof solutions to get the right amount of HHO for the right demand. The exact ratio is not known because it depends on so many things. On the big engines dividing the demand into 3 or 4 sectors yields better results in all of my testing of these big diesel engines. More HHO at higher demand and lesser amounts at lower demand. Each engine has to be tuned in those 3 to 4 zones to see the difference. Once you have it right you can enjoy some good gains. Even if you are off a little you are still smiling because theses burn over 50 gallons an hour at the higher demand level and they work up there a lot. Saving even 10% is worth it over a year of use. More of course is better!! The high amp draw on the big engines is like a fly hitting the wind shield. There torque is so much that 200 to 300 amps does not seam to change the fuel consumption by any meaningful amount when adding HHO. 20 to 30 LPM takes some amps no matter how efficient you are. I have a 12 volt controller that can handle 2 zones and off at idle which works on a 0-5 volt sensor. I will be doing some serious dyno testing in the next couple of weeks or so on a 7 liter diesel 12 volt system. This will give some very much needed information. I can increase its zones by using PWM's and multiple reactors. The use of multiple reactors is always more efficient compared to on large one. The results should be interesting. I am not convinced that the MAP/MAF is the best single. These up coming tests will sort all of that out. With a consistent volume of HHO it shows gains in all ranges of demand which puzzled me at first on prior tests. I then figured out that it is possible but there is much more to be had with the right ratio based on demand. At one point you are getting the max gain for that point or demand and all other points/demand, just minimal gains but gains just the same. This is all measured with a very sophisticated flow meter and if in a vehicle, a GPS etc. It is then plotted in a graph so you can see the difference when HHO is on and when it is off going over the exact same route with the same load if in a vehicle. It plots the route also to make sure it is the same. Expensive equipment but necessary. You have to be much more precise on a small car where an extra suitcase or passenger robs you of mileage when it comes to how much HHO is need for a given demand. Will be looking for more of your results.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb."

    ONE Liter per minute per 10 amps which just isn't possible Ha Ha .

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    What makes what youre describing more than just an OBD2 reading program like torque? Or did I read that wrong

    What id suggest- I think Ive brought this up before, is to reprogram a standalone ECU for HHO. Enabling you to reprogram the fuel trim as well as response from sensor input. I'm sure if you got a digital PWM you could incorporate it into the standalone ECU. If that makes sense.

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