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Thread: How do we use HHO with diesel engines?

  1. Default How do we use HHO with diesel engines?

    Recently we tried to add HHO to a 12 HP single cylinder diesel engine. The engine appears to use more fuel with HHO than without? We are adding the HHO to the air intake of the engine.

    We currently build cells using KOH as electrolyte that generate over a liter a minute at 30 amps and 12 volts. But we have not had any luck with diesel engines. We would like to learn how to make HHO work with small and large diesel engines. Applications are diesel generator sets, fork lifts, earth moving machines, diggers, and trucks.
    Appreciate any and all comments that will help us use HHO properly with diesel engines. Regards THM

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    Did you use the generator you built on the 12HP motor? 30A for 1 liter/min is half as efficient as most of the generators being built today. 60% less efficient than the ones I build.. Efficiency has a lot to do with it and also can seriously affect the quality of the gas produced. How many liters per minute did you feed that 12 HP engine?

  3. Default How do we use HHO with diesel engines?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevo View Post
    Did you use the generator you built on the 12HP motor? 30A for 1 liter/min is half as efficient as most of the generators being built today. 60% less efficient than the ones I build.. Efficiency has a lot to do with it and also can seriously affect the quality of the gas produced. How many liters per minute did you feed that 12 HP engine?
    We fed it over two liters per minute. The only load on the engine was a 30 amp alternator which was belt driven and not connected to anything. We didn't notice any change in engine tone or RPM.
    The same amount of HHO was fed into the air intake of a gasoline engine, and the RPM's as well as the running tone changed. We are using KOH as an electrolyte, about 7 tablespoons per liter, it works a lot cleaner than NaOH, plus we get more HHO out of the cells.
    The dry cells we use have 6 stainless 316L eight inch square electrodes, 1.5 mm thick. Spacing is 1mm polypropylene gasket. We are using a hydrogen boost PWM which controls current well.

  4. Default

    What make and model of diesel is this? What type of governor does it have? A picture of the pump would also help. Can you change the nozzle pressure or size? I am assuming it is a mechanical injection pump. If I understand you correctly you were not using the diesel to make the current for the dry cell.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb."

    ONE Liter per minute per 10 amps which just isn't possible Ha Ha .

  5. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by myoldyourgold View Post
    What make and model of diesel is this? What type of governor does it have? A picture of the pump would also help. Can you change the nozzle pressure or size? I am assuming it is a mechanical injection pump. If I understand you correctly you were not using the diesel to make the current for the dry cell.
    The model is a Swedish engine, we are in Sweden, it was originally mechanically coupled to a electrical generator about 2 kW, but not now. It just runs alone, the governor according to the owner is not adjustable, and I don't know what type of pump, or injector it has.
    We generated about 2+ liters HHO per minute and put this into the air intake. We are generating HHO gas since we tested the output with a torch tip. It works, and we can generate about 10 psi with a torch nozzle of 0.5mm. The alternator on the diesel charges a car battey we use to generate HHO.
    The engine appears to use more diesel fuel with HHO added.
    Since the engine is about 12 HP and the alternator loaded max at 30 amps 12 Volts/360 watts a bit less than half HP, the engine is very lightly loaded. It seems the HHO just goes through the engine, burns, and out the exhaust without any increase in efficiency. The engine will cough a bit if we plug the hose into the air intake and then release the pressurized HHO into the intake. We have much more of a engine running tone RPM change with a gasoline engine generator set of about 1 kW. THM

  6. Default

    A load on the engine will be required to make the governor work propperly. It would be much better if the original generator was still on the engine. The governor will be your problem.

    Here are three options but with out a load none might work:

    1. Lower the amount of HHO so it draws about 5 to 7 amps. 1% electrolyte mixture and try again. It is difficult with the small diesels if you can not change the amount of diesel being used. You will need very little HHO. To measure if it is doing any good with out a load will be impossible.

    2. Run some of the exhaust back into the intake and use the same amount of HHO you are putting in now. Keep adding more and more exhaust until it starts to run bad and then reduce the exhaust going into the engine until it is smooth. You still might need to reduce the HHO too but maybe not. Again you need a load on the engine to do this right.

    3. The last option is spray a little water into the intake with the same 30 amps of HHO with a spray bottle or use a paint spray gun and a separate compressor. Be careful not to get to much water because it needs just a little to make it work. I prefer exhaust and water together but will be hard to control on a small engine like this.

    What is happening with the exhaust/water is you are slowing down the burn of HHO and increasing HP with steam yielding more torque and HP. When done right you get more power over a larger crank angle. Depending on what the governor does will determine the amount of fuel saving if any. The governor is most likely controlled by rpm, centrifugal weights, and you will need to put a load on the engine to see any gain.

    To measure fuel savings on a governed diesel you need to put a load on it. Other wise you will not be able to tell if you are saving or not.

    Larger diesels that have much more torque are easier to get reasonable savings. The hardest ones to do though are generating sets because of the governor and the fact that they need to run at a given rpm range. You have no control over the throttle which complicates it even more or makes it impossible. Because HHO/water/exhaust gas increases torque and HP in diesels the engine can run at lower rpms and make the same HP but this can not be done on a generating setup because the generator needs to run within a certain rpm range set by the manufacture, so unless you can lower the amount of fuel some way and keep the rpm in the right range you will see no gains. Diesels are very efficient engines and just a better burn will yield no measurable gain.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb."

    ONE Liter per minute per 10 amps which just isn't possible Ha Ha .

  7. Default This may be of some help to you

    I was also puzzled over why more isn't better but the guy right above me probably knows a lot more than I do. I learned a lot from the link below this message, they've been doing HHO for a long time and have done a lot of research with it. Probably one of the giants in the industry.

    http://www.fuelsaver-mpg.com/how-much-hho-should-i-use

  8. Default

    I was also puzzled over why more isn't better but the guy right above me probably knows a lot more than I do.

    Here is what 7 years of testing has shown me and I am still working on testing and increasing gains. More is better if you know how and when to use the "more". This is not easy and not cost effective in a lot of cases and complex enough that I would not recommend it for other than testing for the average person. The control systems for using more is very complex and expensive for trouble free safe operation. Fuelsaver's How Much HHO to Use is based on not doing anything to make the HHO have a longer burn time but Mike does limit fuel when possible. It is a good rule of thumb for the average HHO builder. By using the "small" amount of HHO approach you will get limited gains without having to add anything else to help use more of the energy in the HHO or gain more from the wasted heat of an internal combustion engine. The first thing I suggested in my previous post was to reduce the production of HHO down from 30 amps to 5 to 7 amps. This would bring volume of produced HHO more in line with the Fuelsaver's recommendation which I agree with. I also gave 2 more options so they could use the volume of HHO being generated currently and at least not have a negative effect. All the options might result in no gain because of the governor controlled throttle in this case.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb."

    ONE Liter per minute per 10 amps which just isn't possible Ha Ha .

  9. Default

    A load on the engine will be required to make the governor work propperly. It would be much better if the original generator was still on the engine. The governor will be your problem.

    Here are three options but with out a load none might work:

    1. Lower the amount of HHO so it draws about 5 to 7 amps. 1% electrolyte mixture and try again. It is difficult with the small diesels if you can not change the amount of diesel being used. You will need very little HHO. To measure if it is doing any good with out a load will be impossible.

    2. Run some of the exhaust back into the intake and use the same amount of HHO you are putting in now. Keep adding more and more exhaust until it starts to run bad and then reduce the exhaust going into the engine until it is smooth. You still might need to reduce the HHO too but maybe not. Again you need a load on the engine to do this right.

    3. The last option is spray a little water into the intake with the same 30 amps of HHO with a spray bottle or use a paint spray gun and a separate compressor. Be careful not to get to much water because it needs just a little to make it work. I prefer exhaust and water together but will be hard to control on a small engine like this.

    What is happening with the exhaust/water is you are slowing down the burn of HHO and increasing HP with steam yielding more torque and HP. When done right you get more power over a larger crank angle. Depending on what the governor does will determine the amount of fuel saving if any. The governor is most likely controlled by rpm, centrifugal weights, and you will need to put a load on the engine to see any gain.

    To measure fuel savings on a governed diesel you need to put a load on it. Other wise you will not be able to tell if you are saving or not.

    Larger diesels that have much more torque are easier to get reasonable savings. The hardest ones to do though are generating sets because of the governor and the fact that they need to run at a given rpm range. You have no control over the throttle which complicates it even more or makes it impossible. Because HHO/water/exhaust gas increases torque and HP in diesels the engine can run at lower rpms and make the same HP but this can not be done on a generating setup because the generator needs to run within a certain rpm range set by the manufacture, so unless you can lower the amount of fuel some way and keep the rpm in the right range you will see no gains. Diesels are very efficient engines and just a better burn will yield no measurable gain.
    This post could be confusing to some maybe everyone. I need to clarify one thing maybe a bet better. The above post is dealing with an engine that you can not change the amount of diesel injected. If you can change the amount of diesel injected and maintain rpm by adding HHO/water/EG to the intake of the diesel of a gen set then you are off to the races because of increased torque and HP. When you can not then the problems with the governor is the problem. The governor in most cases is gong to keep the amount of diesel injected at a given amount if you can not adjust the pump. Some pumps have the ability to adjust the volume with a simple screw setting but not all. On the small engines there no adjustment as a rule. This whole discussion is about mechanical diesel injection bumps and mechanical injectors. Different rules apply to an electrical ECU controlled engine.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb."

    ONE Liter per minute per 10 amps which just isn't possible Ha Ha .

  10. Default Very interesting Mr myoldyourgold. Many thanks. I have a 2005 passat TDI ...

    Quote Originally Posted by myoldyourgold View Post
    A load on the engine will be required to make the governor work propperly. It would be much better if the original generator was still on the engine. The governor will be your problem.

    Here are three options but with out a load none might work:

    1. Lower the amount of HHO so it draws about 5 to 7 amps. 1% electrolyte mixture and try again. It is difficult with the small diesels if you can not change the amount of diesel being used. You will need very little HHO. To measure if it is doing any good with out a load will be impossible.

    2. Run some of the exhaust back into the intake and use the same amount of HHO you are putting in now. Keep adding more and more exhaust until it starts to run bad and then reduce the exhaust going into the engine until it is smooth. You still might need to reduce the HHO too but maybe not. Again you need a load on the engine to do this right.

    3. The last option is spray a little water into the intake with the same 30 amps of HHO with a spray bottle or use a paint spray gun and a separate compressor. Be careful not to get to much water because it needs just a little to make it work. I prefer exhaust and water together but will be hard to control on a small engine like this.

    What is happening with the exhaust/water is you are slowing down the burn of HHO and increasing HP with steam yielding more torque and HP. When done right you get more power over a larger crank angle. Depending on what the governor does will determine the amount of fuel saving if any. The governor is most likely controlled by rpm, centrifugal weights, and you will need to put a load on the engine to see any gain.

    To measure fuel savings on a governed diesel you need to put a load on it. Other wise you will not be able to tell if you are saving or not.

    Larger diesels that have much more torque are easier to get reasonable savings. The hardest ones to do though are generating sets because of the governor and the fact that they need to run at a given rpm range. You have no control over the throttle which complicates it even more or makes it impossible. Because HHO/water/exhaust gas increases torque and HP in diesels the engine can run at lower rpms and make the same HP but this can not be done on a generating setup because the generator needs to run within a certain rpm range set by the manufacture, so unless you can lower the amount of fuel some way and keep the rpm in the right range you will see no gains. Diesels are very efficient engines and just a better burn will yield no measurable gain.
    Hello. I have a vw passat tdi in running order with no mods yet. I would like to have a check list of everything that need to be done to get it to work and what should be the expected increase in performance. The production of the HHO is not to be discussed other than specifying the amount required at various mass airflow settings. Thanks and regards.

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