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Thread: Need help for newbie

  1. Default Need help for newbie

    Dear All,

    I'm building a small Eco-resort on an island in the Philippines , trying to use cob/adobe/earth bag for the constructions, however we are struggling to understand how to be free from power prospective. For sure we will use solar panel, and wind but I'm insisting to have the HHO SYS as back up or support to the above mentioned sources.
    Unfortunately so far the people I have approached they looked at me and laugh.
    But I don't want to give up, although I feel here it may be my last chance since time is running low, and I'm frustrated cause I don't want to give up.
    Is it realistic and efficient to use the electrolysis to obtain hydrogen to be stored into propane tanks and use this to feed an engine to create power as aid to the solar?
    The tanks can be alternated in the usage: e.g. I'm using the tank A while I'm refilling the tank B and viceversa.
    In addition we were think to store the power produced or having the generator starting only when the necessary.

    Please let me know your comments and where I should look for expertise (maybe here) to establish a potential cooperation.

    I know it's annoying to have newbie asking million times same questions, so thanks in advance for your patience

    Sincerely
    Gio

  2. Default

    I'm building a small Eco-resort on an island in the Philippines , trying to use cob/adobe/earth bag for the constructions, however we are struggling to understand how to be free from power prospective. For sure we will use solar panel, and wind but I'm insisting to have the HHO SYS as back up or support to the above mentioned sources.
    Unfortunately so far the people I have approached they looked at me and laugh.
    But I don't want to give up, although I feel here it may be my last chance since time is running low, and I'm frustrated cause I don't want to give up.
    Is it realistic and efficient to use the electrolysis to obtain hydrogen to be stored into propane tanks and use this to feed an engine to create power as aid to the solar?
    The tanks can be alternated in the usage: e.g. I'm using the tank A while I'm refilling the tank B and viceversa.
    In addition we were think to store the power produced or having the generator starting only when the necessary.
    There are I am sure better qualified people that could answer your questions but I will let you know what my take is on this. Yes it is possible to use solar, wind and wave motion generators to make hydrogen that could be used in a fuel cell. This would not only be expensive but a very sophisticated system and is out of the reach of most. I would suggest you look more into the wave motion generators and see if that with solar and wind would be enough to meet your needs.

    Just a simple HHO setup will not do the job in my opinion.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb."

    ONE Liter per minute per 10 amps which just isn't possible Ha Ha .

  3. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by myoldyourgold View Post
    There are I am sure better qualified people that could answer your questions but I will let you know what my take is on this. Yes it is possible to use solar, wind and wave motion generators to make hydrogen that could be used in a fuel cell. This would not only be expensive but a very sophisticated system and is out of the reach of most. I would suggest you look more into the wave motion generators and see if that with solar and wind would be enough to meet your needs.

    Just a simple HHO setup will not do the job in my opinion.

    Thanks a lot, I'm already happy for receiving answers so your opinion is very valuable.
    The idea is not to go for a expensive system, but reliable, since this place is completely uninhabited and wild and therefore no energy for prolonged time can lead to serious consequences.

    I agree with you HHO won't be the primary solution, but rather back up when solar or other source cannot support a peak of request, e.g. The resort is full, it's raining and all customers stays in the room with TV and aircon.
    For this reason I was thinking to store the hydrogen in propane tanks and not use it in real time but only as back up.
    Or another way would be to use the hydrogen from the tanks to warmup water or for cooking.

    Keep in mind this is not a project to look a large profit but really to realize something 100% sustainable that's why I mentioned earth house, permaculture and HHO ...we want to demonstrate that we "human" can live with nature in a better way, and limit the consumerism to what's necessary to survive, without giving up to the comfort of modern world.
    The land has been already purchased about 25000sqm

    I really hope the solution to this puzzle will be soon solved

    Thanks for your contribution
    Giordano

  4. #4

    Default

    Giordano,
    Yes- these things can be done, and not too difficult either. For primary hot water you will want a sun tracking solar thermal trough setup- http://www.redrok.com/images/smith_ron4.jpg
    To make the most of solar electric you will want a tracking system also, Personally I like the rugged simplicity of the Traxle style method- http://www.solar-trackers.com/# It only tracks one axis (East to West) so you manually adjust it monthly for seasonal elevation.
    For hydrogen storage you will need a splitter/separator reactor to keep oxygen out of your hydrogen- were I doing it I would also build a digester to handle food waste and make methane to add to my hydrogen in low pressure storage (inner tubes or inverted barrel-in-water barrel storage) like this- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yp_qmft1SC8
    To make sure your guests have the freshest and best salads and vegetables, I suggest a low voltage aquaponics system (which you can put the trimmings and excess veg matter into the digester) like this- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWq6WJ5TDic
    Finally, when the sun isn't shining, it's usually night time or windy and cloudy, so you will want to make one of these- http://otherpower.com/turbineplans.html

    Have fun!

  5. Default

    to clarify better the idea let me summarize what I have found and I believe to be feasible

    ASSUMPTIONS:

    due to the remote location and the hight temperature the main considerations in the selection and design of the system are:
    minimize maintenance
    longer life span
    minimize utilization of consumables and spare parts (reliability)
    note: for the above reasons we are excluding batteries with photovoltaic system
    the peak of power consumption will happen mostly at night (9PM~11PM) due to:
    the utilization of the air-conditioning system
    most of the customer and employees will be in their rooms
    higher chance of the utilization of lights and home appliances
    the resort stand alone AC grid (there is not local grid) will be powered by 3 different sources through an inverter:
    the Photovoltaic system - main purpose will be providing power during the day (with a few batteries to support the continuos necessity of producing hydrogen 24hrs)
    the Diesel Genset - main purpose is to backup and provide coverage during the worst case scenario
    the Hydrogen System - main purpose is to act as batteries and supply power during the night and minimize the usage of Diesel

    DESIGN and COST
    Solar Water Heat- stand alone - 0.5K USDx25units=12.5K USD - 40Gal=150L system
    SunChaser 20 Tube Integrated Solar Water Heater w/ 40 Gallon Tank
    Photovoltaic - 20KW - it will cost about 45K USD in the Philippines
    Diesel Genset -400V -1500Rpm- 60Hz
    60KW — 15K USD
    120KW— 25K USD
    the Hydrogen system is composed (for more reading http://www.mpoweruk.com/hydrogen_fuel.htm)
    Water De-Ionizer/Distiller 1K USD
    Hydrogen Generator - 45K USD H2 Output- 600 liters/hour (0.6 m3/hr) (consumption H2O=0.5L/hr and power=5kWh)
    the hydrogen generator converts distilled deionized water into hydrogen gas by utilizing the solid polymer electrolyte (SPE)
    http://www.hgenerators.com
    considering 6hrs operation per day - 14000L
    H Generators Gas Hydrogen Generator
    Hydrogen compressor - not necessary to the scope
    Hydrogen storage tank -1.5K USD 500Gal =1900L=8 tanks= 12K USD
    images
    ICE (internal combustion Engine) used with H2 - 15K USD - 50KW (it’s a normal engine which need adjustment or which is pre-adjusted):
    alternative to convert H2 into power are the following; at this stage I haven’t found enough material:
    Fuel Cells - my understanding is the limited life to 6000~8000hrs, this is a good alternative to ICE - some info are here http://www.iea.org/techno/essentials6.pdf and attache below tables with pros and cons of different fuel cells
    HICE - these are engines designed appositely for H2…I haven't found much, it seems these are necessary for vehicles
    CHP Turbine
    Inverter, Fuel valves, voltage frequency regulator etc. need to be added
    TOTAL ESTIMATED 160K USD
    Screen Shot 2014-11-09 at 4.07.53 pm
    note:
    the peak at each Bungalow need to be limited at 1.5KW to 2KW, the house of employees at 1KW; other buildings such as restaurant wont be limited to a max amount of power demand.


    thanks
    Giordano

  6. Default

    I think the above mentioned system is reliable and you can easily make that type of system if you have some experience.
    Last edited by Allen23; 04-14-2015 at 04:36 AM.
    Nothing to discuss

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