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Thread: Ice breaking

  1. #71
    Lascalll Guest

    Bromont,Quebec,Canada,Planet Earth

    Hello !

    Nice meeting you all. I'm building a generator and been reading and searching for the last month... Had lots of findings since I've been starting this research.

    I own too many cars. 3 Jetta 4 doors (2 diesel, one gaz). A Suzuki Esteem, a new Dodge Avenger 2008, a Ford Focus 2.0 L and a Pontiac Trans-Am with a GM 302 cu.in. This one's my baby. Owned it for the last 20 years... Ok, now witch one do I pick up for the first tests...

    Tough of using the old ones but then, I would have to drive around wasting time and money too calibrate and test the system...Why not use the one I drive to work every week. Just 200 km away... Perfect for best highway milage results. The winner, the Avenger 2008. Has 2.7 L V6. Is MAP sensor can be fooled easily, but I have no space to install any container. I will probably have to remove the Air box to create some space but I will figure a way. It will also look nicer driving around in a 2008 Water Hybrid then in a rusted jetta, lol... I already got most of the parts I need to build the generator (Plates, PWM, ampmeter, Nylon fittings, rods, ...) the only thing I'm missing is time to work on the actual generator and installation ... Can I buy this online too ?

    The price of Gaz here is $1.30 (Canadian or USA) / liter. Was 1.50 last month. The advertised millage/gallon for the Avenger was supposed to be 39 miles per gallon on the highway. I'm actually running at 10 liter/100 km or 23.5 m/Gal us ... Not even close to the advertised one...but hey, its a big car with a V6. Can't ask to beet a Toyota Echo with that...

    I hope to get this 39 m/gal or 6 Liter/100 km. I would then save 8 liters of gaz everytime I go to work. This is about 10$ on 26$. Something around 38% economy... Let's hope I can achive that with HHO...

    Nice Reading you. I found lot's of info & Links on this forum and I somehow hope to help people back around.

    See you around

  2. #72
    scrode Guest
    Hi, my name is Scott, I live in Spanish Fork, Ut.
    This is a great site.
    I have a 2002 Honda Accord 163,000 miles on it, that I have installed a HHO generator on. 28 mpg before and around 40 mpg after. I have been running it for over two weeks. Only prob I have is the dam check engine light comes on ONLY when the wife drives it (I have a efie installed on the map sensor). I built everything, only cost around $40. I'm still trying to figure out what it is she is doing to cause it.

    electrode setup +nn-nn+
    15-20 amps
    approx= 1 lpm
    distilled/baking soda
    dual map sensor enhancer (water4gas design)

    Just a question, do I still need to mess with the O2 sensor as I have a map enhancer?

  3. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by howtomakeitwork View Post
    hello everyone, I have been looking for a forum to join about hho systems and was happy to find this one.
    We made our own system, and installed it on our jeep, only to find we are getting worse gas millage. So, that is why ibegan looking for forums, maybe figure out what we did wrong. A buddy of ours hooked one up to his 2006 NIssan quest FAMILY van, and wired it into his computer by accident, well $2500 later realized you have to wire the system into its own fuse. Lesson learned.
    A few hints about wireing, that can save you a lot of grief..........



    I opted to change out my battery, when I installed the generator. Choosing a marine style battery, I have both top post, and side post.

    The top post hook up normally, with all the functions of my 2000 Grand Cherokee, but I tapped the side post, to feed the generators (I have three)...... Each only pulls 10 amps, but I can easilly add more, if wanted

    I took a #2 wire (capable of 100 amps), and ran it through a constantly on rated solenoid, controlled by a toggle switch mounted next to the console. Because the MAP sensor enhancer, does not connect to any power source other than the line I interupted, the only item besides the ground on the generator, that needed wireing, was the power feed to the solenoid. For this, I tapped off of the headlight feed, and ran it through the toggle, and on to the solenoid, then to ground, with the other side of the solenoid wire.

    From the solenoid, everything gors under the car, and re-enters the vehicle, just where the rear wheel well rises from the frame. I tucked both the wireing, and the HHO line between the wheel well, and the rear seat, to get to the cargo area, where the generators are.

    As the wireing exits the generators, it runs to the wheel well, where I ground the negative, to the frame. I even took the time to run as much as possible inside the hollow parts of the jeeps frame, on the underside.

    Note however, if you wire the same way, you need to be certain that you get a solenoid that is rated for constant use. It also is smart to include a LED, so you know for certain, the power is on, or off!

    I chose this connection path, as it is all too easy to tie into something that could cause problems. Using the headlight circuit, I know there is no computer tied into it, and it is easy to locate.

  4. #74
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    627
    Howdy all,

    I am Doug out of Marysville, CA. Just finished 20 years in the Air Force as a Satellite Communications Technician. My Last 4 years I have been working on the Global Hawk UAV. I still can't believe they payed me money to play with a really large remote control plane.
    --
    Some days I get the sinking feeling that Orwell was an optimist!

  5. #75
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Corsicana,Texas
    Posts
    258
    My name is Fred
    I live in Corsicana, Texas. I've been a mechanic for 25+ yrs. Trucks and heavy equipment when my body was younger. I do automotive electronics/emission repair mostly now. I've been running HHO in my cummins turbo diesel for almost 3 months now. 19mpg base went to 23mpg. My setup is +nn-nn+ about .7 lpm at 13amps hot. I just drove truck yesterday for 6 hrs straight never got over 130F.

  6. #76
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    490
    My name is Stephen. Goofball friends and family call me Stevo. I live in Alliance, TX (far North Fort Worth) and work in Southlake as a User Interface Technologist. In other words, I am a "do-it-all" front and backend web developer.

    My interest here is obviously fuel economy, but also discovering new ways to increase efficiency in HHO production. I am a very "hands-on" sort of person when it comes to automotive maintenance and modification/experimentation.

    The first time I heard about HHO supplementation, I was completely skeptical and my source had already proven to be shady so I disregarded the idea for 3-4 years. One day I received a call from someone who began rambling on about water powering your car... so I checked it out in detail this time and found a slew of scamsters and shady communities with empty claims and radical stories. This isn't all I found though. I did find this place, which has been very straight forward and realistic from the beginning. I do believe that HHO supplementation can be very beneficial to gasoline. I just don't think enough people look at the big picture and consider all the variables and research before implementation.

  7. #77
    McGyver;

    Please explain how you plan to separate the oxygen from the hydrogen?

    I'm not trying to poke fun at the concept, as this is actually what a forum is all about.

    There would be huge benifits if it could be done, and I'm sure it can, but short of allowing the vapors to settle (hydrogen being the lighter element), hydrogen would rise to the top.

    However, that would require storing hydrogen, for hours on end (which can be extremely dangerous). Further, it would not be hydrogen on demand.

    Another thought, is that the hydrogen atoms are so much smaller than oxygen atoms, so it might be possible to draw the smaller atoms through a sive, or filter of some type, that oxygen can not pass through.

    In either event, a purer hydrogen vapor would deliver a far greater punch, and still would fire, as it is mixed with oxygen in the manifold, from the air filter.

    But even two hydrogen atoms being approxomately 1/8 the volume of the single oxygen atom, a larger hydrogen volume, can be attained in an area less than half the total area of the oxygen atoms, and still pack ten times the punch!

  8. #78
    Wako;

    Neutral plates induct current, through EMF (electro magnetical force). Like a magnet, each plate takes on a positive and negative pole (each side being oppositely charged, with induced curent) the neutral plates side that is closest to the anode, adopts the cathode role, in the inducted plate, with its reverse side acting as the inducted anode (facing the cathode side of the next neutral plate, etc, etc.)

    It is impossible to set up plates that are the same charge on each side, unless those plates are pole plates. As an example, in the setup +NNNNN-NNNNN+, each of the pole plates, are charged through a physical electrical connection to the assigned poles, and there is an approximate 2 volt drop in current between each neutral plate, towards the center negative plate. Applying 14 volts, the curent drop would be 14 12 10 8 6 4 2 4 6 8 10 12 14

    However, because the neutral plate which shows 2 volts (from each direction), it will read as 4 volts with a meter.


    Hope this gives you a better grasp of the concept.

  9. #79
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    1,174

    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by DaneDHorstead View Post
    Wako;

    Neutral plates induct current, through EMF (electro magnetical force). Like a magnet, each plate takes on a positive and negative pole (each side being oppositely charged, with induced curent) the neutral plates side that is closest to the anode, adopts the cathode role, in the inducted plate, with its reverse side acting as the inducted anode (facing the cathode side of the next neutral plate, etc, etc.)

    It is impossible to set up plates that are the same charge on each side, unless those plates are pole plates. As an example, in the setup +NNNNN-NNNNN+, each of the pole plates, are charged through a physical electrical connection to the assigned poles, and there is an approximate 2 volt drop in current between each neutral plate, towards the center negative plate. Applying 14 volts, the curent drop would be 14 12 10 8 6 4 2 4 6 8 10 12 14

    However, because the neutral plate which shows 2 volts (from each direction), it will read as 4 volts with a meter.


    Hope this gives you a better grasp of the concept.
    Oh OH!!

    what is blue 2 connected to?

    It should read zero Volts to Ground as presented.

    Or, did you leave out 2 plates?

    IOW Where is the Negative Battery connection?

    In the electrolyte there are no Neutral plates.

    Only metallic unconnected plates. I call them "U".

    BoyntonStu

  10. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by BoyntonStu View Post
    Oh OH!!

    what is blue 2 connected to?

    It should read zero Volts to Ground as presented.

    Or, did you leave out 2 plates?

    IOW Where is the Negative Battery connection?

    In the electrolyte there are no Neutral plates.

    Only metallic unconnected plates. I call them "U".

    BoyntonStu
    Stu;

    There are a lot of missconceptions in this exploritory field of HHO....

    As an example, some folks call the "cell" the entire electrode component, where others contend that the cell is actually the gap between plates...


    Likewise, it is prettymuch agreed that the N plate is Neutral (also agreeable that, it could easilly be called U, for unconnected). I would agree with you, in respect that perhaps the U better describes the unconnected plates, as in fact once introduced to inducted currents, they essentially are not neutral, due to the EMF. Still, they are not connected to any pole plates, but do possess the anode, and cathode abilities (thus, they in effect, are not totally neutral)

    In my explanation I mistakenly called the 2 a Neutral plate, when in fact it is the negative

    My appologies, I made a typo, and didn't catch it (Im very good, at making typos).

    As for the Negative cell plate reading "0", the entire circuit wouldn't work!

    If you have absolutely no voltage out, you have no circuit, at all. In order to have a circuit, it must flow. If there is no current out, it is essentually bankrupt, and therefore nonexistant.

    In life, we can actually get away with having nothing in the wallet, at least for a short time, as long as we avoid the bill collecter. But with a bank account, as well as an electrical circuit, once it hits a zero ballance, the account (and circuits) no longer exist.

    But, even if you just had one cent, left in the account (and/or circuit), still exist.

    In order to have a circuit, there must be at least a trickle of outbound current, or there is no completion of the electrical path (no circuit). And the whole device, will shut down.

    As it is shown (given the correction that the 2 represents the negative connection, and not a neutral), 2 volts are gathered from each direction, making a combined 4 volts at that particular plate.

    Another plate could be introduced, so there are two negatives, side by side, but they would still connect together, causing 4 volts total, at the negative terminal. Adding that particular plate, therefore is wasted material, and not needed.

    If they don't connect together, there is no completed circuit for at least one of the sides (losing one entire bank of plates), and if a third plate is introduced between them, and the 2's actually do represent a Neutral (unconnected plates), then the end result is 0 voltage at the Negative, and again both circuits are bankrupt/lost, as there can be no flow, with absolutely no current present!

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